Angry People of the world: Three examples

twitter Angry People of the world: Three examples0facebook Angry People of the world: Three examples0google Angry People of the world: Three examples0pinterest Angry People of the world: Three examples0tumblr Angry People of the world: Three examplesreddit Angry People of the world: Three examples0stumbleupon Angry People of the world: Three examples0

The internet sure makes people [angry people]. But there are [angry people] in the real world too, and three recent stories reveal that [angry people] in all mediums are still with us.
geeksgalorestorefront Angry People of the world: Three examples .

§ Don MacPherson goes all 20/20 in investigating the case of copyright infringement on Rich Koslowski. Basically, the owner of Geeks Galore Computer Center in Marmora, Ont., one Hogan Scott Courrier, used images based on Koslowski’s 3 Geeks books as the logo of his business — they are visible on his Facebook page and elsewhere. Last year, Kowlowski sued over copyright infringement — and won. But Courrier has simply ignored the court ruling, still using Koslowski’s art, and making all sorts of excuses — it’s his art, he wasn’t there when it happened, wah wah, wah.

“I was never served with the disclosure so the court ruled in my absence. The following forms have been reintroduced into court. You would be best to talk to my lawyer regarding this as I am far too busy to play games with a comic-book creator. We are two completely different businesses, much like Joe’s Garage in the States and Joe’s Coffee Shop in Canada, they both use the same Joe’s Logo,” he wrote, mistakenly representing the notion that entities that share a name can use the same copyright-protected logo if they’re in different countries.

[Angry person!]
Koslowski says he isn’t going to spend any money to pursue more legal action but if he wants to go over to Courrier’s and yell at him, The Beat will definitely go along and pitch in with gusto. ***

§ Over at Robot 6, Sean T. Collins runs down a recent ugly internet incident involving Dan Slott.

It seems some internet wanker going by the handle Lejayjay accused Slott, the current Spider-Man writer, of being a hack:

It is jus a paycheck for Slott anyway. He’s not a real fan.

Slott is known for his love of hanging out on message boards, something all his friends have advised him against, but he did it, and this comment was too much, as it would be for anyone with pride in their work.

As a guy who turned down a side job this year for a paycheck that would’ve been over a third of his yearly income– BECAUSE it would’ve meant cutting back on his not-so-lucrative comic book writing career– and get in the way of working on his Spider-Man dream job…

…and the guy who slept less than 12 hours over the course of 4 days this week working on a script while he was sick… a guy who finally had to be ORDERED off it by his editor to go see a doctor… and is still in a good deal of pain today…

…this is the first time I think I’ve ever said this to somebody over a comic book message board:

Go fuck yourself.

Seriously.

Go. Fuck. Yourself.

Now seriously, if Slott had gone over to lejayjay’s house to yell loudly, we would have pitched in on that, too.*** What gives you, internet mouth breather, the right to insult someone who has EARNED the right to ENTERTAIN YOU with stories about your favorite characters by years and years of hard work? Someone who works nights and weekends, as so many freelancers do. We admit to being a little biased here, as Slott is a neighbor and friend that we often chat to at the local Dunkin’ Donuts, and he’s always talking about work and how much of it he has to do. The man is a unique talent who is beyond passionate about his work. Anyone who slags Dan Slott for not caring is an idiot.

The internet message board culture that rewards those big game hunters who bring down “major pros” with their brutal zings is one of the worst things about our wired world. Or as we wrote here recently of JMS, “The man is not above criticism, but he is above abuse.” Of course all work is open to criticism, but the baroque personal fantasies that fans dream up about comics pros. It’s crazy! Collins has much more on this kind of fanboy entitlement attitude, which we have zero tolerance for. Slott himself bounced back on Twitter this morning:

OMG! I said “FUCK”! How will the world go on? That’s 1 less “fuck” for Tieri, Ellis, Bendis, and a zillion other comic creators to say! :-O

It’s my own fault for not saying “fuck” enough. I need to dilute it. Here: fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuckity-fuck-fuck-fuck.

Fuck, fuck, fuck fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, FUUUUUUCK. — Seriously, people, that’s how Frank Tieri says “Good Morning.” :-)

And you know what, he’s going to be fine, writing things he enjoys writing, and lejayjay can go back to his world where spewing insults on a message board is his greatest achievement.

§ Now THIS [misguided person] harmed mostly himself. Over at Comics Comics, Tim Hodler caught a review on the Onion’s A.V. Club which wasn’t just funny…it was a miracle. The book in question was Genius, Isolated: The Life and Art of Alex Toth, and the amazing thing is that..the book is not even finished yet! It doesn’t exist, as we told you the other day.

Onion A.V. Club editor Keith Phipps was of course, mortified when this was brought to his attention:

A reader just brought this to my attention. I just spoke to the writer of the piece and I’m sorry to say it’s exactly what it looks like. This is someone given the assignment who could not track down the book—for now-obvious reasons—and faked it. This writer will not be writing comics reviews for us again. My next stop after this is to the delete the review and leave a note on the site.

I cannot tell you how embarrassed I am by this. Whatever you think of the quality of our reviews, this sort of thing is exactly what we _never_ do at The A.V. Club. We hold ourselves to a much higher standard than this and I can truly say this is one of the worst days I’ve had on the job because of this incident.

What have we learned? The review has been removed, the writer in question will not work for the Onion again, and the rest of his reviews are being examined. He’s our own little Jayson Blair.

While the perpetrator of this little swindle is clearly a[misguided person] we’d guess he — or she — also hasn’t been at this game too long. Although the review in question certainly did a good job of sounding like the reviewer had seen the book, even in these devolved times, pulling it all out of your ass isn’t the way to go.

In short…DON’T BE A [ANGRY/MISGUIDED PERSON] PEOPLE.

***PLEASE NOTE THAT WAS A JOKE AND WE DON’T CONDONE ANY ACTUAL USE OF YELLING AS A MEANS TO AN END. Yes, I’m just another wimp who gets our her aggressions by postings things on the internet

Comments

  1. Wow! Kudos to Dan Slott! what a gormless twerp this ‘lejayjay’ is…

  2. Sonic says:

    Actually the reviewer for the Onion was really one of their best and most geek friendly writers. This is really saddening.

  3. Who was the offending AV Club writer?

  4. seth hollander says:

    Here’s an example of how you could have reported on the Dan Slott non-event:
    http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2010/12/dan-slott-responds-to-message-board-insult-with-well-deserved-f-bomb/

    Instead you go all Heather to defend your creator-buddy against those damn faceless folks who consume your product. You seem to find reason to insult people-who-aren’t-your-friends-but-say-things-on-the-internet at least once a month. How very very.

    This is (nearly) the last time I give you a “hit”. I’m one internet mouth-breather who will not help you get your ad money.

    I’m looking for news and industry insight, not Cool people circling the wagons against the Geeks.

  5. Jim Caldwell says:

    This really should carry the “Tut, Tut, Comics Community!” tag.

  6. kneejerk says:

    So, someone can’t call someone a “hack” anymore?
    Lejayjay has just as much right to say whatever he wants as Slott does.
    I expect better from this site than this kind of crap.

  7. Yes, ‘jerk, the anonymous turd has a right to say whatever he wants. And Slott has a right to tell him to go fuck himself. And others have a right to say that we think Slott was justified in saying it. And you get to whine that you think the anonymous turd has a right to say it even though no one has said that he doesn’t. Getting the picture yet?

  8. The Beat says:

    Seth:

    I have no beef with people-who-aren’t-your-friends-but-say-things-on-the-internet.

    My beef is 100% with people-who-aren’t-your-friends-but-say-INSULTING-things-on-the-internet.

    There is a difference.

  9. Brett says:

    Heidi,

    It seems that you are very defensive of Dan Slott and very anti – ‘internet-mouth-breathing fans who think they have entitlement issues’ but I can’t help but wonder…

    If the forum’s rules are no profanity or vulgarity why is that the ‘pro’ is ‘ENTITLED’ to deliberately violate the rules. Because the rules do not say:

    Readers cannot use profanity but pros can to defend themselves if you are being a jerk.

    There are a TON of pros who are jerks too but to call them out on their jerkery is not cool because they ‘EARNED’ their right to be a pro?

    That is the most ignorant comment I’ve ever read and let’s be clear now, I’m referring to the comment not you personally because now, we have to be very clear.

    You know as well as anyone else that not everyone who works in the industry earned anything… unless being friends with the right people now constitutes earning their place.

    Funny, I was reading your ‘OUCH! Spider-man column featuring a review by a former Marvel and DC employee that was not very pretty. In fact, had it been written by a ‘fan’, we would have been told, how dare we complain about it! We just complain about everything, don’t you know how many people that play is employing right now at this terrible time in the economy?

    Yes, some fans can be jerks. So can some pros. But a pro being a jerk because he feels he is a pro and therefore entitled to be a jerk is just as disgusting as a fan who feels entitled to be a jerk.

  10. Chris Hero says:

    @Jason A Quest

    Wow, dude, you took what I wanted to say and said it better than I could.

    I’m reminded of something I heard at a con once – some fans treat the characters better than they do the real life people who write the books.

  11. maija says:

    Soooooo, geeks can dish it but can’t take it?

    Who has labeled the “Geeks” and the “Cool People”? Who is circling wagons? Or circling Venn diagrams? We’re all geeks just for authoring, commenting and being referenced in this blog about comics, remember.

    Man, the “geek” stereotype is not being done any favors here. Might as well throw a “jerk” circle (a-ha!) on that Venn diagram and stroke our beards at the interesting overlap.

  12. All I know is reading Slott’s tweets reminded me of how much I miss “Deadwood.”

  13. Chris Hero says:

    The story about the guy with the 3 Geeks logo is kinda astonishing. I mean, just admit you were wrong and make the change, you know? Why drag it out into this long fight?

  14. “…I am far too busy to play games with a comic-book creator.”

    HA! I like this guy. But I’m curious…where are all those folks who slam people that cry about copyright infringement that are so prevalent on TheBeat…the “Beat” included.

    Where are all the Nina Paley lovers who shout “it should all be FREE!” Shouldn’t Koswloski just be happy that his work is being seen and hope for some really good t-shirt sales?
    The inconsistency of the douche bags on this site (including those that run it) is staggering and of biblical proportion. And in case you didn’t notice…I’m example #4, a pleasure as always Heidi.

  15. if you’re gonna call someone a hack, either back up your bullshit or keep your mouth shut. did the jerk in question back up his claim or did the jerk just throw up their nonsense and leave it steaming in a pool of ick ? as for slott not being a real fan, i met the man a couple of years ago at one of the ny carbornaro shows. i wanted to ask a couple of questions for the “avengers forever” website about the direction the avengers’ books were going in. i was not there in any kind of official capacity, just told some folks in one of the threads that if i got the chance i would try to ask slott a couple of questions and maybe get some answers. slott didn’t give anything up (i didn’t expect him to), but what we did have was a very nice and fun conversation about comics that lasted almost an hour. what i took away from the conversation is that dan slott LOVES comics, and absolutely LOVES his job. you may not like his writing style, plots, etc., but do not doubt that this guy loves what he does for a living. i’ve also met pro’s that are less than polite, slott is a complete and total sweetheart towards the fans. i have no problem with fans giving their opinion when it comes to a pro’s work as long as it’s constructive and thoughtful, but too many times ya get a-holes that just want to push buttons and get personal. jerks like that should be called out. thanks for letting mr rant!

  16. You people are such nerds. Everyone highlighted in this piece are all jerks of the highest order.

    In terms of the Slott thing, people are just in an uproar because he actually stood up for himself and didn’t just go “Well, I’m sorry you don’t like my work, nevermind that you just insulted my work and livelihood behind the protection of your computer terminal and anonymity!”

  17. Heidi,

    Thanks for putting up with the level of childishness, ignorance, and flat out rude remarks that show up in your comments section to continue bringing us The Beat.

    I’ll happily bring my baseball bat (or quarterstaff) along on any of the jaunts you mention.

    The situation with Rich is particularly infuriating, because the guy (or someone close to him) obviously liked 3 Geeks enough to steal the artwork in the first place. The idea that he would then denigrate the guy who created it is beyond belief.

    PDS

  18. Brett says:

    Once again — to all you people who are patting Dan on the back for standing up for himself — using profanity and vulgarity on a site that clearly prohibits it:

    The guidelines state ‘No profanity or vulgarity.’

    It doesn’t state ‘No profanity or vulgarity for readers but a pro CAN and is ENTITLED to be profane and vulgar if they need to defend themselves from readers being jerks.’

    Guidelines and standards apply to ALL. They should be followed by EVERYONE and pros should NOT be ENTITLED to violate them simply because they are a pro.

    When a pro uses an eggregious display of ‘ENTITLEMENT’, its just as revolting as when a fan does. Yes, fans are rude, sometimes downright nasty but MOST pros will ignore them.

    And no, no person should have to endure abuse, they don’t have to ignore them and have every right to defend themselves but in the end, YOU need the customer more than the customer needs you.

    That’s something the industry just cannot understand and is one of the key reasons why they cannot gain new readers and have a very difficult time maintaining old ones… their own sense of entitlement just keeps getting in the way of connecting with your target market.

  19. Brett says:

    Good for you Paul.

    That’s a great way to make your point and because you’re sticking up for the pros, of course you are ‘entitled’ to go wherever you want with that baseball bat of yours.

    See if the police find you justified in using a bat to defend yourself against douchebags on a message board.

    Of course, threatening to go anywhere with Heidi with a baseball bat will be met with rounds of cheers and applause.

    The comics industry is in more trouble than you think. I hope you are all so very proud because I no longer want to be associated with any small niche group who feels the need to use violence to support their own insanity.

  20. Slott, despite being one of the better comic scripters out there (and that is well-deserved praise, not given lightly, in an industry where honest-to-skippy GOOD writing has taken a serious back seat in recent years) has nevertheless violated The First Rule Of Internet Interaction: NEVER get angry at a know-nothing troll.

    It accomplishes nothing – other than lowering one’s self to the “debating tactics” of said know-nothing troll.

    Constructive criticism from one’s peers and/or a seasoned editor is one thing; The bleatings of some basement-dwelling fuckwit, on the other hand, is never worth your time.

  21. Actually the reviewer for the Onion was really one of their best and most geek friendly writers. This is really saddening.

    This. The articles I tended to have to most interest in AND enjoyed the most on avclub tended to have his byline. (Really, JAZZ covered on thatsite??)

    Re: Maija. Maybe there should be a term to describe the times those cool “Geeks” become nasty “Jerks”?

    Why not— GERKS? For those moments when an errant act, a wanton comment or an unfortunate career indiscretion occur for all the world to witness.

    Jeebus knows how many Nerds, anonymous online Commentators, Comics Industry professionals and website Bloggers have fallen prey to this ‘transformation’. With the hopeful expectation that the reverse— JEEKification?— will also occur…

    And then back again. ;)

  22. Brett says:

    MHF…

    Are you a peer or a seasoned editor?

    Because using your own standard, unless you are, he’s shouldn’t even be reading your post so why are you wasting our time?

  23. Jack Fear says:

    Actually the reviewer for the Onion was really one of their best and most geek friendly writers

    …and he’s been making his living as a writer for years, since long before he came to the AV Club. He’s always come across as a sharp, professional, ethical guy. He’s already published a full, unconditional apology on his own website, and to his credit he doesn’t try to excuse or minimize his actions. But the horse is already out of the barn; how is this going to hurt him going forward? This is really a horrifying mess.

  24. Synsidar says:

    Constructive criticism from one’s peers and/or a seasoned editor is one thing;

    But are one’s peers going to criticize an artist’s or a writer’s work publicly? If someone goes online mainly to receive praise and rejects criticism as being uninformed or ignorant, when it’s not, he’ll be seen as an egotist using weak ad hominem defenses.

    If the criticism seen on message boards can be dismissed out of hand, so can the praise.

    SRS

  25. Snikt Snakt says:

    Mike: “All I know is reading Slott’s tweets reminded me of how much I miss “Deadwood.”

    :-D that made me LOL

    Good for Slott, for not taking crap from uncouth nerds!!!

  26. “Are you a peer or a seasoned editor? Because using your own standard, unless you are, he’s shouldn’t even be reading your post…”

    That’s “he” – not “he’s”.

    Always happy to help in these situations.

    “If the criticism seen on message boards can be dismissed out of hand, so can the praise.”

    Indeed. As most of it generally consists of ‘WOW! U R THE GRATEST THING SINCE DARKSIDE ON A UNICORN!!’

  27. Justin Jordan says:

    “***PLEASE NOTE THAT WAS A JOKE AND WE DON’T CONDONE ANY ACTUAL USE OF VIOLENCE AS A MEANS TO AN END. Yes, I’m just another wimp who gets our her aggressions by postings things on the internet”

    Violence for the sake of violence is still okay though, right? Because otherwise I may need to change my weekend plans.

  28. *Ahem* Someone stealing someone else’s art to promote their company, making it your logo and then not ceasing and desisting when you’re court is a massive fuck-U to all creators(can I say that?).
    The Dan Slott thing?*meh* don’t read him, don’t care, also this is the internet, you’re always going to get people who will say those kinds of things, also people _always_ break forum rules, especially when it comes to swearing.

    I think the biggest breach of artistic and media etiquette was the Toth thing. Man, I know there are many journalist scumbags, but that really bites the big one! Even if he did apologize, he shouldn’t have done it in the first place, not if he had any shred of integrity. Did this guy work for News International, bet they’ve got a job lined up for him there.

  29. I’ve read pro comics by “real fans”, they were all shit.

    Slott tries his best to not be the “elevated fanboy” in his writing. I commend him for it.

  30. Brett says:

    Dear Heidi,

    My last word on the subject will be in response to your:

    “What gives you, internet mouth breather, the right to insult someone who has EARNED the right to ENTERTAIN YOU with stories about your favorite characters by years and years of hard work?”

    To you and all pros:

    You have not earned the right to entertain me or anyone else unless WE decide to take money out of our wallet to buy your art.

    And when I do purchase your ‘art’ which to many, is just a product like anything else I decide to pay for with my hard earned money, I have every right to say I didn’t like it and why. In fact, some companies pay millions of dollars to question people as to why they don’t like a certain product I’m not buying and why. And they’ll PAY me to tell them what I don’t care to tell the manufacturer. Its called Market Research.

    Thing is, some of you pros are so arrogant, ANY kind of criticism is perceived as insulting. Some of you are so rude, you’ll actually go into a public forum and argue with me as to why I SHOULD like your work and those who are averse to even sampling your work — because your past work was so terrible — you have the audacity to then come back and try and manuipulate me by saying, ‘So, how do you know you don’t like this new work unless you try it.’

    The audacity of the comics industry is second to none. You want to know why you can’t get new readers? It’s simple: No one is recommending your work to anyone. You treat the very small amount of customers you do have like shit — calling us whiners and complainers. You treat the readers you have like they are replaceable but here’s a newsflash:

    We’re not replaceable. No one is coming in to replace your lost readers. And you keep taking the very small amount of readers you do have for granted, as if we HAVE to buy YOUR product because YOU are working on a character we happen to like.

    Newsflash #2: We don’t. We don’t have to buy your work. No one does. At this point, I am so disgusted by this industry, I have not been able to go into a comic shop in weeks because the thought of supporting any of the big mounths in this industry makes me sick.

    As a human being, I would rather give $3.99 to a homeless person on the street than give it to feed any of the ungrateful, big mouths of the comic industry, who are think they are cool and entitled themselves just because they write or draw a friggin’ comic book — not even good ones at that!

    You want to bite the hand that feeds you? This customer is going to feed someone else.

    PS: Dan Slott and only because Heidi is so proud of you, I think your paying customers need an encore.:

    “It’s my own fault for not saying “fuck” enough. I need to dilute it. Here: fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuckity-fuck-fuck-fuck.

    Fuck, fuck, fuck fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, FUUUUUUCK. —”

    Who says comics aren’t for kids. The guy writing them behaves like he’s an ill mannered 12 year old.

  31. Watching this cronyism, cheering Slott for a completely abusive overreactive response to a paying fan for daring to voice a negative opinion is simply nauseating. This “you go girl” shit is beneath you. OK you’re friends with Dan Slott and Alex Segura, could we pretend to show a little objectivism and report on anything other than our obnoxious clique and maybe show a little less blatant hate for the fans who work hard, nights and weekends, to afford to buy the books that keep Slott employed?

  32. Brett, as much as I have to point out your obvious hipocrasy regarding the “arrogance” of creators ( what with that “We’re not replaceable” bit you just made), your points as a consumer of a commercial product such as comic books are certainly valid.

    The thing you have to remember, though, is that creating a “friggin’ comic book” is not an entirely easy thing to do. You have to understand from the creator’s point of view: if they’re going to put years of crafted talent into creating something they consider to be a quality product, don’t be suprised that if you straight up call it crap, they’re going to be defensive about it. Common sense, really. Also, you can criticize the product but when you go directly after the creators and their abilities it gets personal. (As in the case of Mr. Slott and said fan).

    HOWEVER, it also doesn’t make you an ignoramus for not enjoying the product, because really that was the product’s ultimate goal. This is why I don’t necessarily endorse mud-slinging either way. This relationship is a direct result of the characters being in a shared creative pool, umfortunately. If a fan likes one version of Spider-man and some guys come in and do a crappy job writing/drawing the next version of Spider-man, it creates what think is a reasonable discord with that fan.

    On a final note: somebody said it above: if you’re going to be a creator in this day and age you really shouldn’t be letting one anonymous person’s one-sentence passing insult get under your skin that much that there’s this huge public blow-up. There’s gotta be some thicker skin, here, it’s the Internet for crying out loud. Focus on what people ARE liking, make that part better, take constructive criticism and simply ignore the time-wasters that contribute nothing to anything. Saying “fuck you” a bunch of times in response only validates that one pissy fan’s vitriol and doesn’t do anything for your image as a professional.

  33. Wow… I expected all of these comments to be about Rich’s art and there would be 32 impassioned calls to help fight this in court… Instead there’s just arguing and only one little mention about an artist’s work being stolen?

    *sigh*

    I hope you get justice, Rich. I think Rob might know a good copyright lawyer.

  34. Rob S. says:

    That’s just what I was thinking. We’ve got a real, clear-cut case of trademark infringement, and instead everyone is concerned about a stupid internet slapfight. Good luck to Rich.

  35. Dan Slott says:

    What a tempest in a tea cup.

    4 things:

    1) This was NOT me attacking someone who was disagreeing with me– or criticizing my work. So, no points to anyone trying to argue that, because that’s NOT what happened. Please find a new cause of the day. This was someone taking a shot at me as a person– assigning motivations to me that I don’t have– painting a picture of me that was insulting and wholly untrue– in a PUBLIC forum where I was a member and regularly post.

    2) This was something I said after four days with very little sleep– while very sick– in a great deal of discomfort– stressed out over work– and after a bad day at the doctor’s office. I was NOT at my best– didn’t really have any of my “A” game for a quick, witty response– but I still stand by what I was feeling– and don’t regret ANY of the “vulgarity” in what I said. I regret the clumsy preamble tho– cutting straight to the GFY would’ve been much better. :) (And for that guy online who thinks I got over some kinda phony sickness because– WOW– I’m still able to type on a keyboard… Please post your snail mail address– and I’ll be more than glad to ship you tissues filled with blood and mucus. I seem to have an inexhaustible supply.) :-[

    3) So far– in my history of internet discourse– this has been a GFY one-timer. Have I been rude again? Sure. Even recently. Will I keep dropping f-bombs? I dunno. It’s gonna take me a while to catch up to a lot of other comic pros out there. I think my usual LACK of profanity is what made this a little note worthy. Like that rappin’ granny in the 90′s. Or a dog that barks “I love you.” Seems strange when that guy who usually writes Squirrel Girl tells somebody to “Go F’ Themselves”. I get that. I’m sure in the Bizarro World, this same scenario is playing out– with TONS of posts about that horrible incident where Warren Ellis complemented a fan’s haircut and then took them out for tea and cakes.

    4) The guy apologized. He was VERY nice about it. He apologized publicly in the forum. He reached out to me in a private message, I accepted his apology, he was happy, and CBR took the posts DOWN. This really was an over-and-done-with-issue… Until a Spider-Man message board– with a history of mods, admins, and posters saying a far greater volume of insulting things about Marvel employees– picked this up and ran it on their front page just to stir-some-shit. And it worked. Bleeding Cool picked it up to stir-some-more-shit. And guess what? Shit got stirred. To me, one of the funniest things about this WHOLE turn of events– is how so many posters FROM that Spider-Man message board have been the MOST vocal about this around the net– clutching their pearls, falling on their fainting couches, and writing lengthy Emily Post-like suggestions for how I should comport myself online– especially the guy who ON NUMEROUS OCCASIONS has said that myself and others in the industry should “die in a fire”. Yeah. I’m taking protocol advice from that guy. *golf claps all around*

    Okay.

    There.

    Said my peace.

    Now go. Read some comics. Have fun. That IS what we’re all here for, right? ;-)

  36. The only reason this is a tempest in a teapot is that the blogosphere has been regurgitating the story all week long with a decidedly anti-consumer, yay Dan’s our friend, how dare you have an opinion slant.

    That’s all.

    There wouldn’t be comments if there weren’t stories to comment on. And the guy apologized, and was nice about it, and days later the Beat is saying that he should be kneecapped because Dan Slott’s a swell guy to hang out with.

    That attitude is pretty hateful and insulting to everyone except for comics staffers and freelancers who pal around with the writers from the Beat.

    That, combined with the message board in question giving Dan Slott a bully pulpit from which to say go fuck yourself, a move that would result in the banning of any single other user of the forum, creates the sense that the blogosphere at large is elitist and unfair and has somehow fallen into a bizarre state of mind in which the creators are somehow superior based on the fact that they have jobs in the industry, and that we as consumers are in their debt for their genius and – literally, in the case of this article – how DARE we have an opinion!

    We all work hard.

    We all work nights and weekends.

    We all work when we’re sick.

    We all deal with dickheads on the ‘net.

    Cry me a fucking river.

    Dan’s telling a guy to go fuck himself doesn’t strike me as super-professional. What is truly hateful are articles like the one above, and Dan, if you’re going to tell people to stop making an issue of it, you should tell the Beat, and Robot 6, and Rich Johnston and the rest that a lot of other interesting stuff is going on in comics.

  37. seth hollander says:

    I read the comment threads here and at Dead.net (the home of the Grateful Dead’s never-ending product line).
    I think the preponderance of comments on almost any subject (whether it be mere comic readers daring to insult Heidi’s celebrity friends or the newest release of Grateful Dead concert recordings) will come from the annoyed readers. Assent breeds silence, maybe?
    My point (to Andy) – I think the lack of comments about the abuse of Koslowski reflects that we all agree with Heidi’s take on that issue.
    While I think it’s really Cro-Magnin to talk about responding to insults with violence (as some commenters in this thread have), I think that the Koslowski injustice IS dreams-of-violence-worthy.

    To Heidi- thank you for not closing this comment thread. Lotta heated negativity from all sides. But it is revealing of … something(s) …

    To the haters of disgruntled fans: Amazing how we ALL sit at our computers to argue and insult over the issue of whether people sitting at their computers arguing and insulting are mouth-breathing basement-dwellers lacking rights or not.
    Personally, I do A LOT of mouth-breathing, but I have a third-floor apartment. And I feel I have every right in the USA to insult whomever I choose. And that you have the same right.

  38. Actually, Seth, while I agree with nearly everything you say and welcome your voice of reason, the threats of violence are actually initiated in the article itself – the writer of the piece is the one who first jokingly, if enthusiastically, advocates beating people with baseball bats.

    Always a good way to start a heated thread.

    Also, to close this thread would be monumentally hypocritical given the subject matter.

    Lastly, freelancers aren’t really celebrities, they’re somewhat in the public eye but they’re writers and artists who are talented and lucky to be working at what they love.

    No more, no less.

    And actual real-life celebrities are just people, so everyone really needs to get over themselves.

    Certainly publicists aren’t celebrities, although god knows some people treat them as such. They give out keychains and are paid a salary like you and me, on behalf of corporations. They write press releases.

    They may be great people. The fact that they’re the friends of an elitist clique doesn’t merit them being a major part of the news cycle in this reader/writer’s opinion, but hey.

    But thanks for a little Grateful Dead mellow-ness. Never cared for their music, but I love the attitude that they seem to encompass. We could all use some of that.

  39. Dan Slott says:

    Seth,
    This wasn’t a problem I had with a “disgruntled fan”. It wasn’t someone trashing my work. It was someone I’d never interacted with taking a shot at me– at my character– in a public forum where I regularly post. If this was someone taking shots at me in a bar, face to face, would that change things?

    Yes, Comics Cavern, it was something I responded to in the heat of the moment, while very sick, very stressed, and most of a week with very little sleep. I freely admit it wasn’t a shining moment– and, please forgive me for reacting in a very human way.

    Comics Cavern, you seem to have a double standard here. “Celebrities are just people, so everyone needs to get over themselves”– so pros in an industry are just people, right? And “how DARE fans have an opinion?”– so fans are people too, with opinions that matter, right?

    But when one of those people takes a personal shot at the other– that person can’t behave in an all-too-human way and shoot back?

    I’m confused. In one case you want these two different groups to be held to different standards– in another case you want them to be on equal footing.

  40. Dan Slott says:

    “We all work hard.

    We all work nights and weekends.

    We all work when we’re sick.

    We all deal with dickheads on the ‘net.

    Cry me a fucking river.

    Dan’s telling a guy to go fuck himself doesn’t strike me as super-professional.”

    Comics Cavern,
    It’s kind of hard to see you championing for people to strike a “super-professional” attitude, when you consider…

    …that YOU just put this up on your own tumblr:

    “Place your bets – how long ’till Dan Slott tells me to go fuck myself? »

    (scroll down to the bottom after reading the article – my comments are waaay down at the end)

    Now, then: are all my tumblr peeps in the house gonna have my back if this turns into some straight-up gangsta shit?”

    It sounds kinda hypocritical. Like don’t really care about the high road, you’re just spoiling for an internet fight and are just trying to bait me. :(

  41. I’m not responding to a consumer critiquing my work or speculating about my methods by getting up on a high horse, telling a guy who cannot defend himself to go fuck himself – he cannot defend himself because you get a free pass to say anything you like, and if he tells you to go fuck himself, he gets banned. If you do it, you get a banner headline cheering you on from the Beat.

    I’m not responding to a message board critiquing my work, Dan, I’m being silly on the Internet, not on Disney’s dime, and not pretending I’m a rock star, so where does “professional” enter into it? What company am I making look bad?

    I don’t see how you can claim the high road here although you’ve had no problem doing so, all I was doing on tumblr was drawing attention to a discussion that I thought was interesting and sharing my opinions on the matter with my tumblr readers/friends.

    I’m not interested in baiting you and I’m not interested in being bullied by you. But if you don’t want people to talk about it, maybe the place to start is by not tweeting about it.

    Or by telling your donut buddies to not write about it, rather than trying to stifle the comment thread.

    There’s a real double standard theme to your entire approach to this, Dan.

    What’s a double standard, to my way o f thinking,

  42. Ach I got cut off. But if you really want to stop talking about it you’ll stop talking about it. I’ve said my peace. I hope you feel better and I wish you the best, I bear you no ill will – I stand by my comments about the professionalism in this incident and it’s my right to feel that way just as it’s your right to tell me to go fuck myself, but this article perpetuates the notion that you should somehow be above the common man, a notion that is upheld by your ability to say things in a forum that no other user can say.

    It flips the relationship between the creator and the end consumer on end and puts you on a pedestal that nobody deserves to be on.

    I’m sure you’re a great guy Dan, but you’re just a guy. We’re all fans, some are creators, but we’re all just people doing our part to keep this comics thing happening.

  43. Dan Slott says:

    “telling a guy who cannot defend himself to go fuck himself…”

    A guy who cannot defend himself? Are you serious? He’s an internet poster. He can defend himself left and right and keep an argument going till the end of time if he wants. What? Suddenly the guy’s a poor defenseless baby harp seal or something? C’mon. You have SEEN the internet, right? ;)

    “A guy who cannot defend himself?” Please.

    You seem to have two standards here. It’s pretty obvious. Fans should get a free pass when you want them to– and pros shouldn’t when you want them to.

    And, going by your tumbler message, you’re looking for some kind of “I took on a pro”- badge of honor instead of having a serious conversation. In some circles, that’s called “trolling”.

  44. Saying go fuck yourself to a guy who, if he responds in kind, is called bullying, Dan.

    It gets better.

    Believe me if I really want to draw attention to myself I’m not gonna do it by rolling around in the mud with you.

    You’re the one who’s been bragging about this shit over Twitter.

    You seem to have such a high opinion of yourself that you think I have something to gain by “taking you on”, and that kinda drives home my point – your ego is the size of my grandfather’s prostate and you need to get that shit checked.

    I’m embarrassed for you.

  45. Dan Slott says:

    Darn it. Missed your 2nd post while I was posting mine.

    If you’ve been reading what I’ve been posting, I don’t get the “You’re a great guy, Dan, but you’re just a guy” comment.

    Isn’t that the point? Some guy said something very rude and insulting to me– something I felt– as a guy– I had a right to fire back on. It was a shot to my character (not the work). Does that make sense? Again, if this were two guys in a bar– why wouldn’t I tell that guy off?

    It’s a strange double standard. You flip from “he should behave like a pro” to “you’re just a guy”. And it seems that YOU get to decide when each standard applies. Whatever.

    To me most of this is moot. If I’d had one good night’s sleep– or wasn’t sick as a dog– none of this would’ve happened. Seriously– all the years I’ve been working in this industry– all the time the internet has been around– this has been my 1st GFY moment.

    If you really want to go hardcore on this stance, you should set up permanent residence at Warren Ellis’ site and pull out your copy of Emily Post every time HE sounds off. :-)

  46. Dan Slott says:

    “You’re the one who’s been bragging about this shit over Twitter.”

    Oh please, I’ve been doing no such thing. This has NOT been my shining moment– and I’ve been trying to laugh it off on Twitter.

    If, with all that’s going on in the world, THIS is the big, righteous cause you’ve chosen to crusade about for X number of posts, I’m just as embarrassed for you.

  47. OK here’s the thing. I believe you’re a great guy. I’ve been told you’re a great guy. You don’t come off that way in this exchange, or the way you’ve handled it, or in this conversation. or in that whole Demonoid flap.

    So I believe you’re a great guy, but – I disagree with every single thing about this and I feel as if it’s very illustrative of a real contempt toward the audience that I’ve been observing in the industry, and it stuck in my craw.

    All the moreso when the Beat cheered you on and said stuff that was infinitely more offensive than “go fuck yourself”. And, again – this guy was not able to respond in kind.

    Friends? Or at least no longer sparring partners?

  48. Dan Slott says:

    I just checked. Apparently 3 tweets in under 4 minutes on Thursday morning now equals “bragging about this shit over Twitter.”

    I take it back, you HAVE seen the internet. Scratch that. You ARE the internet. :)

  49. Dan Slott says:

    You keep doing this. You keep posting WHILE I’m posting. :-P

    Fine. Friends AND former sparring partners. ;)

  50. Friends with benefits? Naww I’ll quit while I’m ahead.

    Besides I like chicks.

  51. CitizenCliff says:

    Wow, sorry I read all these posts, I feel dirty. This is some really childish banter on what is otherwise a really good site. Heidi, I implore you to delete this entire thread. It’s an embarrassment to your site and the comics community. You’re better than this.

  52. Paul Santos says:

    I’m going to try and break this down for everyone because there seems to be some confusion.

    This fan insulted Dan’s honor and integrity as a writer. He flat out said that Dan was in it for the money. Now here’s an experiment I want everyone at home to try. The next time your mechanic who is sick as a dog and has had a bad day fixes your car with a smile on his face you tell him “Well your just in it for a paycheck. You don’t really know cars.” And watch what happens. Better yet just change the word mechanic to IT tech, baker, plumber, firefighter, or doctor and replace the word car with computer, cake, sink, house,or your health get my point?

    So to recap this fan insulted Dan, Dan called him on it, and then Hedi reported it. There really is no conspiracy.

    P.S.
    I love the Three Geeks and I think the Beat should stat a fundraiser for Rich Koslowski.

  53. seth hollander says:

    To Dan Slott: I didn’t think that your behavior, or the other guy’s, were out of line. I don’t follow your career (I follow a handful of creators and read very few comics that aren’t from them, so don’t take it personally) and don’t think thread-spats, amusing as I find them, are “news”. Thus your exchange doesn’t matter to me. The first I heard of it was here, a site I come to for articles like the Retailers Respond To Survey on (that Thor book that got cancelled) article last month.
    What I did take issue with is:
    A- Heidi treating your exchange as a news item
    B- Heidi seeming to present the exchange as a my-friend (who’s somebody because he writes comics)- got-insulted-by-a-mouth-breather (i.e., someone who is not known to write comics) and-that’s-just-so-wrrroong! venting item.
    C- the crowd of commenters eager to join in piling on this guy (from mouth-breather to basement-dweller without anyone apparently even knowing the fellow’s identity, much less such personal data; would be funny if he himself turned out to be someone much more successful and cooler than anyone else here, wouldn’t it?).
    Indeed, the bit of niceness in this kerfuffle is hearing that your dispute ended amicably and that you wish the event hadn’t been media-tized.

  54. I wonder if Lynda Barry ever ‘Slott’ed back at such a heckler (and others who’d attack her in turn)…

    Or are these kind of online interactions the sole domain of Creators and Fans of the SUPER HERO ™ genre? SOMETHING about that particular genre
    providing fertile grounds for such behavior on both sides?

    You got CLOWES’ed, dude? They sure laid some LOS BROS on ya? WARE’d up? He YANG-slapped that beeyotch?
    Uhh— nope.

    Maybe it’s just a cape-and-tights thing.

  55. Sure, fans are allowed to criticise a pro’s work. If the guy had said, “I don’t like the way Dan Slott writes Spider-Man’s dialogue,” nothing would have happened. It’s because he lied about Slott to his face, and told him he was only in it for the money.

    There are times a pro is bullying a fan just for having a negative opinion of his work, but this was a pro’s reaction to a personal attack on the pro, containing a false accusation.

  56. Oh, and I came here to read to about the Toth story, but then found out about the Slott story through this column.

  57. Sim Jhooter says:

    “What gives you, internet mouth breather, the right to insult someone who has EARNED the right to ENTERTAIN YOU with stories about your favorite characters by years and years of hard work?”

    What gives Dan, the guy who writes slowly and has had most of his books canceled, the right to insult someone who has EARNED the right to RESPOND TO A CREATOR about their stories they paid to read, about their favorite characters they were reading long before this creator wrote them and will continue to read long after they’re off the book?

  58. Dan Slott says:

    “What gives Dan, the guy who writes slowly and has had most of his books canceled…”

    Um. Well, I DO write slowly. That’s true. But I didn’t know it was a race. :-)

    But I’ve only had one of my titles canceled (THE THING, which actually had a sales increase BEFORE it ended– but the die had already been cast. :-( Still… I’m very proud of the work that myself, Andrea, Kieron, Laura, and team did on the book.)

    That was pretty much it. I have worked on mini-series which had finite runs– and titles that had endings planned to make way for relaunches… But if you want to go down that road… Whatever.

    My responding to this is another case of me “feeding a troll” isn’t it? I don’t think “Sim Jhooter” actually thinks that the price someone pays for a comic gives them “the right” to insult a person’s integrity, ethics, or character in a public forum. Or that doing so equals “RESPOND TO A CREATOR about their stories”. That’d be silly.

  59. The Beat says:

    Haters, I see right through you. I’ve been at the game longer than you and I’ve see it all. Lather rinse repeat.

    And now, a rest. Dan, thanks for stopping by. Come post anytime!