Lost: And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make

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lost cast1191 Lost: And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make

“Once there was a way, to get back homeward,
Once there was a way, to get back home
Sleep pretty darling do not cry, and I will sing a lullaby.
Golden slumbers fill your eyes, smiles awake you when you rise
Sleep pretty darling do not cry, and I will sing a lullaby.” – Golden Slumbers, The Beatles.

People may be confused, but I doubt they will be angry with the end of Lost.

Spoilers, of course.

Where to start?

I’m amazed by the number of people who seem to think the plane crashed and the whole thing was the afterlife. It seemed pretty explicitly explaining that what happened, happened on the island and the Sideways is the afterlife or purgatory or what you and then everyone in the church moves on… after Christian Shephard (no snickering) opens the door and the light comes in.

Does that mean that the producers lied when they said the island wasn’t purgatory or were they fudging or maybe it was the truth when they said it then but isn’t the truth now? I’d say they were telling the truth but not the whole truth, which is their job, just like writers not wanting to reveal what happens in the next issue of their comic.

I stopped asking for answers I knew I was not going to get a while ago (while secretly hoping for some of them to maybe be revealed), so I enjoyed the series finale for what it was. But that doesn’t mean  there aren’t questions to be asked.

— Shannon was Sayid’s true love all along? And to think Nadia has been his motivation for all this time. And it was nice that the afterlife allowed Boone to be accepting of their love.

— If Hurley is “Number one” and Ben is “Number two,” does that make Desmond “Number six?”

— The cork in the wine bottle wasn’t just a metaphor after all.

— When they got to the church, I thought it was going to be Eloise Hawking’s church. and that everyone would go to a third new universe to live happily ever after.

— Did MIB die a little too easily, once he lost his Smokey powers? Weren’t you expected a horror film revival at some point?

— I was expecting Jack to find himself in the coffin. I also wouldn’t have been surprised if MIB or Jacob had been in there.

— Glad we got one more visit with Rose and Bernard (and Vincent).

— Then there’s the “who was or wasn’t in the church” talk. It appeared, on first watching, Juliet and Penny were the one person not on 815 in the church and Libby was the only “tailie.” I presume they make the cut because they are the “true loves” of Sawyer, Desmond and Hurley, respectively.

— Hooray for Frank not being dead.

— Someone with more emotions than me needs to make a list of crying moments in this episode and try and rank them. Presuambly, the top ones are Jin/Sun and Kate/Claire. People could probably make a case for Sawyer/Juliet or Sayid/Shannon. And then the end of course.

— As I told The Beat last night, the end really seemed like the end of LORD OF THE RINGS, with our heroes sailing off into the sunset. (I’m sure she knows the name of the boat, but she’s a much bigger Tolkien devotee.)

— I’m glad we got to see Real John Locke on more time and that Ben asked for and was given absolution.

— Having your protagonists ascend into heaven (or functional equivalent) certainly helps alleviate the worry of sequels. That said, I’m sure people would love to see a glimpse of Hurley and Ben as Mr. Rourke and Tattoo. I wonder how much golf, ping pong and backgammon they played for however long they were on the island.

— The sunken island in the Sideways is now a popular topic again. When did it sink? Is that when Hurley and Ben died?

— What happens to Jack and Juliet’s son in the Sideways, now that his parents have moved on? Presumably, the Sideways world goes on for those people still there. Or was it all for Jack, and with Jack gone, it just goes away?

– Did Kate not want to go into heaven wearing her little black party dress? Did she need to change into something more comfortable?

— And was the Sideways created by the bomb, did the bomb allow access to it? Is the Sideways, as one theory has already speculated, a creation of Hurley, with his new Jacob powers?

— Jin/Sun’s reaction to “James Ford, LAPD” was one of the great lighter moments in the finale.

— Since Charlotte and Faraday didn’t have their memories jogged, does that mean they aren’t ready yet?

— All we really needed probably to make everyone cry was Desmond playing Amazing Grace on the bagpipes. With all the STAR WARS references, why not a STAR TREK one to end the show?

And… how long with Carlton and Damon stay off the grid? And just how much will the say?

Let the discussions begin. And thanks to Heidi for letting me do this column.

Comments

  1. Marcus Lusk says:

    A lot of fans will have to think on this one for a while. There were some very satisfying character pay-offs in the “sideways” world, but events felt a bit rushed there at the end. I was looking for cameos from Walt or Mr. Eko, but those are pretty minor complaints.

  2. The Beat says:

    Thank you, Mark. It has been a wonderful ride.

    “Hopes fail. An end comes. We have only a little time to wait now. We are lost in ruin and downfall, and there is no escape.”

    I saw the Tolkien ending coming about halfway through the final episode. And it worked. I think Darlton may have been smarter than they knew. The awful “Across the Sea” showed that when you sit down and explain things, it didn’t work. Instead by sticking with the emotional core of the characters and letting Walt, hieroglyphics, the pregnant women, the Others bad behavior and the rest just slide by and letting courage and redemption take over, the storytelling worked.

    Other random thoughts:

    The cliffside fight was very Return of the King. I liked the typical hero-heroine double team on MiB, with Kate the rescuing shot, and Jack the final kick over the side.

    And for those who are wondering, purgatory was the churchyard bench, i.e. Ben’s place. (I did think it was Eloise’s church though?)

    The other ending that I saw coming was the Matrix-style power of love element. In season five Jack admits he was doing it all because he loved Kate, and all the reunions in the final episode reinforced that. S much smooching!

    I cried about six times.

    And for the haters, okay no Walt…but you did get VINCENT!!!

    “… the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a far green country under a swift sunrise.”

  3. Immediate reaction: ‘Dude, you got some BSG Finale on you’.

    Add to the list of LOST’s inventive tweaks of network serial televsion: the “Clip Show” as series-ender.

    Abrams-verse continuity: APOLLO Bars, but no SLUSHO?? WTF?

  4. Ronan Collins says:

    There’s no doubt that the finale had a definitve ending, which is to be commended and it was indeed a nice emotional pay-off for the characters to see them “live happily ever after”.

    However, ignoring the inconsistencies with the island story itself (MIB’s second skeleton inside the cave? Jack not doing any ritual or using Latin to change Hurley) – the logic of the sideways universe was flawed.

    If the sideways universe is a construct, why did Jack create a son for himself? Why did Eloise care if Daniel went too (he’s not alive)? Was the island seriously the most important event in Shannon’s life? Libbys? Was Shannon more important to Sayid than Nadia for whom he did everything? Why did Desmond run Locke over – really just so he could meet Jack again?

    Ah well, glad the journey is finally over and at least everyone will have a new comparative for the best/worst ending on TV ever…

  5. Well, they certainly kept me guessing up until the very last moment. And, they certainly have left everybody with plenty to think and argue over indefinitely. Like: Okay, so that whole “sideways” timeline with the happy endings was nothing more than a Limbo-like weigh station on the way to “Heaven.”

    So what the hell was the other timeline? And why were people who DIDN’T DIE among the “souls” who transmigrated with Jack at the end? Sawyer, Kate, Miles, Claire, Richard and Lupitas DIDN’T DIE!!! Neither did Hurley or Ben!!! So why were Sawyer, Kate, Claire, and Hurley in the church (i.e. Heaven’s waiting room)???? Unless that waiting room was a place OUTSIDE of time…everybody would eventually die.

    And Ben’s not going in…it’s pretty clear he’s going to Hell instead (which is as it should be). So…if the “waiting room” gathers souls from various time periods…i.e. the whole “Island Gang”…that’s the only way it makes any sense.

    Well…at least a few people survived past the death of the Locke/Smoke Monster….for a while anyway. Even if they all ended up in that cosmic waiting room with Jack in the end. That’s my two cents.

  6. Anonymous says:

    I don’t know if I missed something, but I feel like I’ve been conned with the entire sideways world storyline. What was the point of Ben’s story with the principal, or Jin being kidnapped or Jack’s son if ultimately everybody just needed to wake up and go to heaven? I thought the finale was great until the last 15 minutes when an entire half storyline was rendered moot. It’s not that I minded that sort of ending, but I don’t see how it hooks up with what we have seen over the last season.

    I also find it very hard to believe that Shannon would trump Nadia as the woman Sayid would end up with in the afterlife.

    Regardless, I still enjoyed it all.

  7. Rob Goodin says:

    Whoops. That was me as Anonymous (above).

  8. Mark Coale says:

    Everyone in the church died, they just all didn’t die on the Island or when Jack dead?

    Who knows how far “in the future” the sideways takes place? Presumably, Hurley and Ben lived quite a while. Same with the folks on the plane. Ben will go into the light when it’s his time. Maybe he needs to “wake up” Rousseau and Alex first.

    Now, why Aaron was still a baby, that’s a good question.

  9. @John R. Fultz

    Concerning the church. That is in fact the same church that the DHARMA station The Lamp Post is located in. I just checked out screenshots from the episode The Lamp Post appeared in and it had the same stained-glass windows and the same Jesus statue outside of it.

    “The Lamp Post” is a Narnia reference, and is a marker for the “place in between worlds.” I don’t know too much about C.S. Lewis’ books, having not read them, but I do know that little bit of info.

    My familiarity with The Lamp Post actual stems from the game Chrono Trigger, a rpg with a time-traveling element to it. In the game the kind of “waiting area” your party can go to to recharge their batteries and get sidequest info is called “The End of Time,” and is a little floating cobblestone structure with a big lamp post in the center. I’m sure those Japanese game developers probably pulled that from C.S. Lewis as well (or something!).

    Anyway, what I’m getting at is that I’m pretty sure the Sideways reality exists outside of whatever normal time the regular reality is in. No matter when anyone died or how long they lived, they wound up there. That’s why when Hugo saw Ben outside they spoke to each other as if they had a long, great partnership keeping watch over the Island. At some point they died and then wound up where everybody else went.

    At least, that’s what I got from it. I’m still trying to wrap my head around a lot of it, and I’m glad I have so much to think about with the series finale.

  10. Micah says:

    Jack being alone at the end was a nice bookend to the series, but really sad that all he had was a dog. Bummed me out.

    After the show, I thought of lost friends and hope. I thought the finale was amazing.

  11. >>And why were people who DIDN’T DIE among the “souls” who transmigrated with Jack at the end? Sawyer, Kate, Miles, Claire, Richard and Lupitas DIDN’T DIE!!! Neither did Hurley or Ben!!! So why were Sawyer, Kate, Claire, and Hurley in the church (i.e. Heaven’s waiting room)???? Unless that waiting room was a place OUTSIDE of time…everybody would eventually die.<<

    Bingo. Jack's dad even said something like "there is no 'now' here."

  12. @Ronan: Was the island seriously the most important event in Shannon’s life? Libbys? Was Shannon more important to Sayid than Nadia for whom he did everything? Why did Desmond run Locke over – really just so he could meet Jack again?

    Apparently so, in regards to all of your queries. But then, “apparently so” is just my opinion, and that’s the beauty (and yes, frustration, but still…) of this show – it’s left ambiguous so the viewer draws his or her own conclusion. Have we seen anything like that on TV since the original “Prisoner” with McGoohan? “Lost” rarely pandered to the lowest common demoninator, and that’s what I loved about it.

    I don’t know if I mentioned it in a previous entry here, but we will be treated to quite a few answers on the 6th season DVD, with twenty additional minutes of story.

    But I do know why there was no Eko: the actor playing that role had a schedule conflict. He’s shooting a movie and could not get away to do even a cameo, period. So chalk up Eko’s absence to bad timing in our world.

    I also have to admit…
    I did shed a tear in the end when Vincent came to be at Jack’s side as he died.
    Yes, I’m a dog lover. I don’t think there’s anything better than the love and loyalty of a good dog. Sometimes, Micah, that’s all ya need.

    Great ending to a great, great show.
    Thank you “Lost” creators, cast and crew for the last six years.

    And now I’m gonna TRY and get some sleep –

    Lance Roger Axt
    AudioComics, LLC

  13. Oh – there’s one other person who won’t be goin’ to church anytime soon. Michael. It was inferred a couple eps back when Hugo saw Michael in the jungle that he couldn’t move on because of what he had done. I suspect his spirit’s going to be stuck on that island a lonnng time. Kinda sucks to be him.

    Lance Roger Axt
    AudioComics, LLC

  14. David Doty says:

    Re: the absence of Mr. Eko.

    Moving from the realm of things that the creators possibly may have meant, into the realm of pure “we’re making it up from thin air to suit our own interpretive agendas,” I put forward the theory that Mr. Eko was absent because he did all of his spiritual transformations while he was alive, so got to skip this intermediate step.

  15. Did I call it or what?, seriously no answers and they stole the ending of Pan’s Labyrinth. Seriously this is what people waited 6 years for man I swear if I hadn’t jumped ship when I did i’d be pissed off right now. Luckily I never bought into the writers bs about a grand plan, basically these guys pulled the ending out of their asses and it wasn’t even an original one what a letdown. The only people happy about this must be the writers of 24 because once their finale flops too people will be too busy being pissed off at LOST’s to care about theirs.

  16. Karen says:

    ““The Lamp Post” is a Narnia reference, and is a marker for the “place in between worlds.” I don’t know too much about C.S. Lewis’ books, having not read them, but I do know that little bit of info.”

    But it is incorrect. The lamp post is planted in the earth that becomes Narnia. There IS a place between worlds, described in the chapter “The Wood Between the Worlds.” This is all in the book “The Magician’s Nephew.”

    The lamp post first figures in “The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe” as a marker for entering Narnia.

  17. Frank Rook says:

    Why couldn’t Michael, who killed one person out of pressure to save his son and another by accident, not move on, but Ben, who offed his Dad, the Dharma Initiative, had most of the 815ers killed, and killed John Locke, get to even be in the sideways purgatory, but not Michael?

    Don’t get me started on how Charlie Hume wasn’t allowed to be with his parents, and Aaron & Ji Yeon will die with “being a newborn and being a fetus” being the highlights of their lives. Then there’s Nadia and Helen, who’re abandoned by Sayid & Locke rather abruptly…

    An emotionally satifying finale, sure, but mentally devoid of coherency. They didn’t even try to tie the source’s light to this afterlife, thus the whole mission of Jack’s was useless, since everyone got a happy ending one way or another.

  18. Mikael says:

    “They didn’t even try to tie the source’s light to this afterlife”

    Then what was all that light when Christian opened the door? If there’s a piece of that light in all of us as it was stated in a previous episode, then, at the end, did the cast of Lost actually become one WITH that light? I think we could make that connection and it wouldn’t be too bad of an interpretation.

  19. Mikael says:

    Oh – and thanks Ed for the Battlestar spoiler. -_-

  20. Andrew Laubacher says:

    “What happens to Jack and Juliet’s son in the Sideways, now that his parents have moved on? Presumably, the Sideways world goes on for those people still there. Or was it all for Jack, and with Jack gone, it just goes away?”

    Locke answered that when he told Jack “You don’t have a son.” Jack’s son was a construct who presumably “went away” when Jack moved on.

  21. Torsten Adair says:

    Three great series ended last night, but the general public barely noticed. (I’ll prove my point… can you name them without searching the web?)

    I am sure someone will pick apart the series for inconsistencies.

    Among finite, planned series, how does this rank? Is Babylon Five the best? The Prisoner? Quantum Leap?

    What are the best final episodes from prime time television? Among final plot twists, how does this rank with Newhart?

    I have no television, so I never got hooked. Having read the Usenet discussion of Watchmen as each issue was published, I’ve already experienced the fan-alysis of Lost, some twenty years ago.

    And can I start a flame war and say that Gilligan’s Island is much better than Lost? }]

  22. Way too St. Elsewhere… People may not have liked the BGS ending but I did feel like the writers committed to it. I even liked The Sopranos ending. I felt like the LOST creators left so many questions unanswered almost so they could evade a conclusion. Sure, everyone is dead or perhaps even being “reset” (since “the button” is back in place underground) but Christian himself explains the lack of a credible timeline in his everybody-dies-speech – this seemed pretty weak. I never felt like they fully addressed “what was it all for?”, either literally or allegorically. And I do not think that dismissing ideas through dialogue-one-liners is satisfying – it feels like the story was very inorganic but made on the fly as the hours flew. But I can’t blame one episode. To me, the season itself – although enjoyable at points – seemed weaker, less consistent, and really forced than previous seasons. It just didn’t flow for me.

  23. Sean Murphy says:

    I was very satisfied with the ending. Jack’s father made it clear that some of the people in the church died before Jack, some died a long time after him but that everything on the island had happened (thus avoiding the cliche “It was all a dream” ending).

    Actually, I thought it was a nice twist – for the first few seasons, there was all sorts of speculation about the Island being limbo. But in the end it the sideways world that turned out to be a place for people to process lingering issues (thus Ben’s statement that he was going to stay awhile) until you were ready to make the next step.

  24. Shaun M. says:

    I was wondering about the “forever babies” aspect of Sideways, as well.

    As to why Ben gets to be a part of things and not Michael—I’d say it’s because Michael is trapped by guilt over what he’s done, whereas Ben is not. Also, Ben was “an important part of their lives,” which seems the other main qualifier. Who knows, perhaps he even moved toward—but not quite attained—redemption during his time with Hurley.

  25. Wow, just wow.

    I expected better from The Beat posters.

    How can so many, not get it?

    This Limbo, this passing on station, was JACK’s!!!

    In Jack’s mind, yes Shannon was Sayid’s true love because he didn’t know/had never met Nadia.

    In Jack’s mind Aaron was a child (we could quibble that Aaron should be a toddler in the church, not a baby, but that’s a quibble)

    Sawyer, Kate & Clare escaped the island? Yes, of course they did, but you know, everyone eventually dies! Did you miss what Christian said? This Limbo/weigh station doesn’t occur like a human would perceive. This isn’t the Earth that revolves around a sun in a 24 hour period.

    This show was about flawed people gaining redemption. Simply put, the six year excursion was the life and redemption of Jack. This ending at the church was Jack’s “letting go’ and traveling on. Perhaps from Sayid’s perspective his “letting go” takes place in a masque with Nadia by his side.

    Really, I expected better from the posters here.

  26. Oh, my only question is, was Jack’s mother (Veronica Hamel) in the church? Unless they had a horrible life together as Jack was growing up, I’d expect her to be there, if his father was.

    Not surprised that his ex-wife didn’t make the cut.

  27. The final scene with the dog was great. They pulled off a great series with lots of imagination, action, humour and ended with kindness.

    Good on everyone involved.

  28. Well, I think people “got it” but creating a story that needs to be gotten doesn’t necessarily make for good story-telling. Having a few characters explain the “rules of the game” over the last few episodes and minutes is forced. I did hear what Christian said and it almost ruined the episode for me – it felt like a gimmick. Again, I have always felt that some seasons have been stronger than others, some more cohesive. I just felt that this season was less so.

    I’m not sure if it’s related to this but a few years ago I had heard that the show was intended for eight seasons before coming to a definitive ending. Anyone else hear similar rumors?

  29. Barry Buchanan says:

    That finale was lack-luster. I had come to grips with them not answering 3/4 of the questions they raised
    cause you could tell they wouldn’t get to very many of them a couple of episodes into this season. Plus I don’t need to be spoon-fed everything storytelling-wise and I am a fan of letting the viewer fill-in the gaps. And we knew Jack was gonna die, (he was supposed to die in the first episode when they wanted Michael Keaton to play him) but frak. They could really pull some cool s@!% off with this alternate universe they had built and we would get a awesome twist ending or something close to it.

    So NEWHART still has the best series finale, ever!!!

  30. Cheryl Harris says:

    Everyone forgets – Bernard was a tailie. So they were represented by both him and Libby.

    Walt’s absence in the church stood out for me a bit, but I guess that was because he (the actor) would have been so unrecognizable now.

    As far as what made me well up: Jin and Sun produced the most tears, Sawyer and Juliet surprisingly not so much. The other tearjerker was Claire and Charlie (not Claire and Kate) – that actually was a love story which, for viewers, spanned a number of years so I was more tied into it emotionally as it turned out (which surprised me a bit – I was ready to be all gushy over Sawyer/Juliet). Don’t know if others felt the same way.

  31. Tommy Raiko says:

    A few digressive thoughts:

    Torsten Adair asked “What are the best final episodes from prime time television?”

    As an oddball choice, I’m going to put in a mention for NYPD BLUE, which ended with Andy Sipowicz newly promoted to lead the squad and looking after paperwork. A very quiet, life-goes-on ending for a series that, for all its sensationalism, celebrated the mundane.

    As for LOST, I’ll just make this one comics-related observation, that I don’t think I’ve seen elsewhere. The whole thing in the flash-sideways with Jack having a son reminded me of the classic Alan Moore Superman story “For the Man Who Has Everything.” In that story, Superman is trapped hallucinating his perfect life, which involved a world where Krypton never exploded and he married and had a son. At one point, when Superman realizes he’s in a fantasy world, there’s a heart-wrenching moment with the son where Kal-El tells his son that he loves him more than anything, but that he doesn’t think he’s real. I was almost expected some similar scene in the LOST finale, but am kinda glad I didn’t.

    Many will quibble about questions unresolved, but I’m most disappointed that we never saw Locke turn into the smoke monster (at least, not from a third-person POV.) Kinda trivial, but I think it woula been neat…

  32. Wesley Craig Green says:

    My initial response after watching the finale was sadness mixed with anger.

    There was some great writing in the finale but I felt the writers took the easy way out a couple of times especially there at the end with Jack’s dad explaining what’s going on.

    But what bothered me the most was just the way it ended. To me, a more satisfying ending would’ve have been if the Sideways storyline became the “real” storyline for everyone instead of it being some kind of purgatory or whatever the hell it was suppose to be. For what the characters went through for six seasons, you would think the writers would’ve given them a better, more rewarding storyline to live in instead of realizing they’re dead.

    Plus, for Jack to die like that after sacrificing himself to help protect the island… I don’t know. In all seriousness, what was so great about that island? I thought in the finale, they would reveal the island’s source of light to be some kind of gateway to a Shangri-La or something. Then I would’ve understood why it needed protected.

    It wasn’t a horrible finale for what it was. I just felt like the characters deserved more than what they got.

    Wesley Craig Green

  33. It ended perfectly for me. I could not have asked for much better, really. It gave me everything I wanted and most important, the whole series was a great fiction epic that came to life.

    Small as they may be in the big picture, I was happy to see Frank and Richard get off the island and that they were alive.

    The real misty part for me was when Vincent came and laid down beside Jack at the end. That sealed the deal for me.

    Great fight between Jack and MIB in the storm.

    In the end it was all about the characters, the way it was supposed to be.

    Thanks!

    Beau Smith
    The Flying Fist Ranch

  34. @Wesley Craig Green
    “To me, a more satisfying ending would’ve have been if the Sideways storyline became the “real” storyline for everyone instead of it being some kind of purgatory or whatever the hell it was suppose to be.”

    But you see, that would have been the easy way out.
    That would have been poor writing.

    They ended the show the way everything must end. Everyone, everything dies.
    To end it with everyone “getting a second chance” to live happily ever after would have been the cheat.

    @Beau Smith
    “In the end it was all about the characters, the way it was supposed to be.”

    Best comment ever.

  35. All in all, I was quite pleased with the finale. My favorite moment was the Jack / MIB fight on the hillside — or I should say, the lead up to the fight with the editor’s decision to put a commercial break as Jack is jumping mid-air.

    It reminded me that the show delivered on many levels: action bad-assery, comedy (“I don’t believe in many things, but I do believe in duct tape.”), romance, myth, and mystery. I’ll take it over a cheesy BSG ending any day.

  36. Nate Horn says:

    Last night was my first time seeing an episode of Lost and it seemed to me they packed the show with lots of fan-service moments such as dead characters coming back to life and everyone ending up with someone the loved.

    My question, and the person who made me watch this show with them couldn’t answer, is why was the island special? Why didn’t they all leave? Why did anyone want to save it? Or are these questions ones that were left unanswered?

  37. Well, no dead characters came back to life last night.

    And seriously, if you have all those questions, the only way you could come close to answering them would be to watch the series on DVD.

  38. Nate Horn says:

    @Richard – I don’t have any desire to watch the show on DVD. It seemed kinda boring. It seemed a lot like someone read The Third Policeman, ripped out all the fun stuff, added a bunch of mushy stuff, and called it a TV show. In the process, nothing made any sense, but look – slow motion clips set to whispy music and people kissing. I guess it makes sense why people liked it.

  39. > This Limbo, this passing on station, was JACK’s!!!

    Not true! Christian told him “You ALL created this place together.” So it was a “passing place” that they ALL needed to move on. Jack was simply the last one to arrive. (And chill out, dude.)

    I agree with the poster (EJ?) who said they pulled this ending “out of their ass.” Yeah, it was obvious they had no plan in mind…they crafted this together from various loose ends, and made an entire storyline (Sideways) irrelevant “Owl Creek” stuff. Also, they fell back on the easy tropes–Christian ascendance–when they had been going out of their way to avoid the whole “God vs. Devil” thing.

    Was it enjoyable? Yes. But just like BSG, they had to get all RELIGIOUS to tie impossibly loose ends together. But it’s understandable: When you’re doing a TV show and you have no idea if it will be renewed from season to season, or how long the story has to last, you HAVE to fly without a pre-determined ending and stretch out your story.

    In retrospect, they should have skipped the entire Sideways timeline…the show would have been more powerful without it. OR…all those happy endings should have “replaced” the Island timeline. This way, we got neither.

    Whew, I’m glad that ordeal is over.

  40. Brian Spence says:

    The one part that gets me is how Desmond thought (apparently) that uncorking the island would move them to the sideways place. I still think Desmond was aware of the afterlife and he wanted everyone to join him. By the way, Desmond was in the church, and he wasn’t on the plane either. I think it was anyone who became close on the island. I don’t think it was Jack’s personal heaven, since Christian said it was a place THEY made.

    Also, I like that there are still interpretations to be made. It’s possible that Jack is now a smoke monster. How else did he get out of the cave? We don’t know that he died then and there.

    Someone above asked who the two skeletons in the cave were, which I believe it was smokey and Eve.

  41. CBrown says:

    @Richard J. Marcej:

    “This Limbo, this passing on station, was JACK’s!!!

    In Jack’s mind, yes Shannon was Sayid’s true love because he didn’t know/had never met Nadia.

    In Jack’s mind Aaron was a child . . . ”

    The problem with this interpretation is the Benjamin Linus scenes outside the church are clearly independent of Jack’s experience. The scene between Locke and Linus is about Linus gaining forgiveness from Locke for things that have nothing to do with Jack. Then Hurley and Linus have a conversation that references their relationship past the time of Jack’s death. Then Linus chooses not to ‘move on’ at that time . . . Is he just making that decision in “Jack’s mind”?

    Also, Jack’s father explicitly says, “This is a place that you all made together so you could find one another.” It’s not just Jack’s personal afterlife.

    Maybe that afterlife was a collective experience (created by the hydrogen bomb explosion? Somehow?), and once each person enters the church it becomes an individual experience for that person? In other words, as viewers, we were seeing their experiences in the collective afterlife throughout the season, and in that final scene we were just seeing Jack’s individual afterlife. Maybe?

    But my biggest question from the episode was: How did Ben get out from under that tree?

  42. @Nate Horn
    ” slow motion clips set to whispy music and people kissing. I guess it makes sense why people liked it.”

    Wow, nice condescending way to sum up a six year run TV show, that you admittedly never watched, and only watched the finale because you were “made to watch it” by someone (your words).

    Opinions are great, and everyone is rightfully entitled to one, but an opinion holds more weight if you’re commenting on something that you actually watched (or read).

    But hey, that’s just my opinion.

  43. Patrick Hamilton says:

    A thought about Ben’s situation at the end: he may not be ready to move on because Alex is still in the sideways-line. But to move her on, he would have to awaken her to her life on the island, including his letting her be killed. Perhaps he isn’t ready to face that?

  44. “This would be so sweet if we weren’t about to die.” – Hurley

    Personally, I feel Six Feet Under still has the award for best series finale ever. But in the end, if I took out all the mythology (realizing I was not going to be given any more answers) I thought it was a pretty amazing finale, especially the last half-hour!

  45. Nate Horn says:

    @Richard

    Yep, I’m being condescending about it because I thought the one episode I watched sucked. And no opinion holds much weight on the internet. Here’s why:

    – If you don’t watch or read something, your opinion doesn’t hold any weight because you’ve never experienced it
    – If you read or watch it once, your opinion doesn’t hold any weight because you didn’t experience the whole thing
    – If you read or watch an entire piece of work, your opinion doesn’t hold any weight because you must be a fan, otherwise, why stick with it

    So, I watched one episode and I thought it sucked. It was all fan-service by way of “Look who’s back!” and slow motion montages set to cheesy music. Did I see something wrong? Was this stuff not in the last episode?

  46. Wesley Craig Green says:

    @ Richard:

    “@Wesley Craig Green
    “To me, a more satisfying ending would’ve have been if the Sideways storyline became the “real” storyline for everyone instead of it being some kind of purgatory or whatever the hell it was suppose to be.”

    But you see, that would have been the easy way out.
    That would have been poor writing.

    They ended the show the way everything must end. Everyone, everything dies.
    To end it with everyone “getting a second chance” to live happily ever after would have been the cheat.”

    Sorry but I disagree. It’s just my opinion that Christian’s speech was too contrived and served mainly to tie things up. To me- that’s lazy writing.

    Again, it’s my opinion the characters would’ve been better served if they were able to live out their new lives after what they sacrificed for the island.

    Wesley

  47. Joseph says:

    @Nate – internet or not, you can’t craft an intelligent opinion of a serialized show after watching one hour out of 120. How can you say it’s fan service when you haven’t watched the previous six seasons? Why even jump into this thread – are you just looking to start an argument? Do you only read the first (or last) page of a comic book then jump on message boards bashing it based on the five panels you read?

  48. Richard: Thanks. I appreciate it. It was always the character that had me coming back, just as the characters had me coming back in Spider-Man, The X-Men and other Silver Age Marvel Comics that I grew up reading in the 1960’s.

    Beau Smith
    The Flying Fist Ranch

  49. Jeremy Holstein says:

    We only saw a few bits of the island underwater, most notably the statue foot. Could it have fallen into the sea when Sawyer saw a large chunk of the island drop? “That can’t be good…” he mused.

  50. Somebody says:

    “Where are we?” -Charlie in the pilot episode.
    “Figure it out yourself.” -Show writers.
    “I’ve been trying to do that for 6 years.” -Me.

  51. Postnocomments says:

    The best series finale ever: Battlestar Galactica. A show with a finite story arc, character driven with its own mythology that tied all loose ends in the final episode in the most unexpected ways.

    Lost, I guess the writers got lost with all the mysteries they dumped at viewers over the years and decided to ignore a lot of them in the end.

  52. Mememe! says:

    Pan’s Labyrinth ended the same way as LOST, only it made more sense.

  53. Now that several hours have passed, I’d have to say LOST’s finale falls somewhere in the middle between the greatness of BABYLON 5 and STAR TREK: THE NEXT GENERATION’s finales and the worst finales such as the recent BATTLESTAR GALACTICA and THE X-FILES.

    Although LOST’s finale was satisfying on an emotional level, there were just too many mythology plot points and characters that were dumped off to the side and ignored. (“WALLLLLLLT!!!”) Some sloppy and lazy writing overall, but it could have been much, much worse.

  54. So… as a complete and utter novice to all of this, let me ask a somewhat stupid question:

    The characters on Lost, they survived the crash (so to speak)of Oceanic flight 815. But if I read the final episode correctly, they’re all dead, and merely waiting to “move on”.

    The rest of the passengers… the ones who did not survive the crash… were they automatically redeemed? Or are they in some other sideways reality? Or simply not chosen to play Jacob’s version of “Survivor”?

  55. The Beat says:

    Nate Horn: You’re kind of being a jerk.

    Not that someone watchign the last episodes can’t have an opinion, but those of us who have been riding this train for SIX YEARS are gathering in a church to move on. You just snuck in the back and farted.

    My initial thought at the end was that it was all in Jack’s head, but it does seem to be some kind of Grant Morrison/C.S. Lewis/Pan Labyrinth/Brazilian kinda waiting place.

    I can see why Darlton don’t want to talk about it, however!

    Maybe they can be like Mark Twain and wait 100 years for their memoirs to be published.

    My favorite TV show ending of all times was THE PRISONER, of course.

  56. The Beat says:

    Oh and by the way …WHAT THE HALL HAPPENED TO DESMOND?????????? NO one has addressed this at all! Did he join in the Hurley/Ben good shepherd routine and never see Penny and Charlie again? That seems the only reasonable answer.

    Between writing this post and the above, I have had serious serious The Last Battle flashbacks.

  57. Matt D says:

    Ben presumably had decades and decades (if not centuries) to redeem himself as Hurley’s #2.

  58. In regards to Desmond, I think it’s safe to assume, based on Hurley and ben’s conversation, that he got off the island. Hurley said (and I’m paraphrasing here) “But what about Desmond? No one’s allowed off the island” to which Ben replied “Those were Jacob’s rules. maybe you can run things differently.” I took that to mean, Hurley got Desmond off the island, back to Penny and the little ‘un, presumably to live out a long life.

    As for Nate’s comments, he’s got every right to share his opinion here, but at the end of the day, it’s still a dick move. I don’t watch American Idol, read Dan Brown, or listen to Maroon 5, but I don’t feel the need to hop on their forum to piss on all their fans. What does that accomplish?

    I, for one, loved the finale. It was actually a bit more straightforward and less metaphysical than I had prepared myself for. Sure, I would have loved it if they had spent a little less time on new temples and Dogen and crew this season, and a little bit more time on wrapping up existing loose plot threads. But in the end, I was still thoroughly engrossed and entertained. The show, at it’s heart, won everyone over with the characters, and the ending did justice by all the characters.

    100% opinion: Lost was, and probably will be (at least for a long time) the best show on television. The unique set of circumstances which led to its creation will be nearly impossible to duplicate.

  59. Tommy Raiko says:

    “The characters on Lost, they survived the crash (so to speak)of Oceanic flight 815. But if I read the final episode correctly, they’re all dead, and merely waiting to “move on”.”

    My read of the final episode is more like this: the flash-sideways timeline in general and the church gathering in particular are a collective construction made either by or for the benefit of the various characters. When the characters died in the “real” world, they eventually came to this flash-sideways reality and eventually awakened to gather at that church so as to come together before moving on.

    That is, my read is not necesarily that all the characters *are* dead and are waiting on pews before moving on, but rather than when these characters die, they’ll eventually make their way to this room for one last cosmological get together with the people that meant the most to them, and then move on. I don’t know that that’s generally about redemption, or about paying dues, but it is about living together…even if dying alone.

    “The rest of the passengers… the ones who did not survive the crash… were they automatically redeemed? Or are they in some other sideways reality? Or simply not chosen to play Jacob’s version of “Survivor”?”

    Well, some folks that survived the crash but died on the island were seen in the flash-sideways (Arzt was, right? And “Frogurt” too, right?) So maybe they just weren’t sufficiently “awakened” to their island life to come to the church. As far as Jacob’s candidates go, one imagines that anybody who died in the crash or shortly thereafter would have been among those with their names crossed out in the cave and the lighthouse…

  60. PD Shaw says:

    I didn’t understand Christian Shepherd’s explanation that you made this place to mean that all of there contributions were equal.

    Individually, each had created something in the Sideways that was probably part wish-fulfillment and part learning device. Jack creates a son and works through his father issues. Hurley is succesful and deals with his feelings of inadequacy.

    Collectively, they create the idea of meeting-up, but the primary mind behind the collective effort appears to be Hurley. Who else would most want an Island reunion? Who else would have the innocense to assume that the island meant as much to each of them or that they (e.g., Sayid & Shannon) meant as much to each other? Who else would have invited Linus? Who was always best at helping people?

  61. John Layman says:

    Um, The Wire was the best show ever, with the best finale. This is not even up for debate.

    The Shield ending was pretty note-perfect too.

    But the Lost ending did what it needed to do.

  62. Mark Coale says:

    “We only saw a few bits of the island underwater, most notably the statue foot. Could it have fallen into the sea when Sawyer saw a large chunk of the island drop?”

    We saw a long tracking shot of the island, including the foot and the Dharma barracks being underwater.

  63. PD Shaw says:

    The only thing that struck an off note for me were the declarations of love btw/ Jack and Kate. I was waiting for Kate to say she was staying, but no, Hurley is the one who is staying. Hurley is afraid of going down one set of cliffs for another, but we really know he just wants to help Jack.

    But what is Kate thinking? Finally, she’s on the same page with the same guy at the same time, but what about the baby she left behind? Who will take care of the baby? But that just leads me to a dark place: Why did she leave the baby in the first place? Why didn’t Sun tell Jin to leave the sub and protect their child?

  64. I guess that’s better than it all turning out to be a videogame.

    Did anyone see the finale of the Britshow Ashes To Ashes (the post-Simm continuation of Life On Mars) last Friday?

    Same explanation for the overall plotline.

    Basically, both sound like what you get when you don’t know what your ending will be before you start.

  65. Mark Coale says:

    I had someone make the comparison to Ashes to Ashes to me this morning.

  66. hikaru go says:

    I felt burnt after the final reveal but on second viewing I took it at face value for what it was and enjoyed it much better.

    However…

    I’m fine with leaving much of the mythology up in the air but to me the island itself is just as important a character as anybody. Seasons 1-5 are all about “What is the island?” “We got to save the island.” “We got to go back to the island.” And now, season six (the first ep– the long sweeping shot of the island underwater)? None of that shit matters? It was never about the island?
    The show came around full-circle in a very appropriate way which I’m sure the writers did have thought out. I’m positive that they didn’t know what to do with the “padding”- season 2 being a perfect example. In the end, the writers made the island feel as important to the plot as Anna Lucia. That ain’t cool.

    Finally, Brian K. Vaughn is the unsung savior of this show!

  67. Troy Wilson says:

    “Um, The Wire was the best show ever, with the best finale. This is not even up for debate.

    The Shield ending was pretty note-perfect too.

    But the Lost ending did what it needed to do.”

    I’m totally with you, re: the finale of The Shield, John. So good.

    Haven’t gotten to the end of The Wire, but I’m glad – and not at all surprised – to hear that it ends well.

    As to the Lost finale, Charles Skaggs nailed it:

    “Although LOST’s finale was satisfying on an emotional level, there were just too many mythology plot points and characters that were dumped off to the side and ignored. (“WALLLLLLLT!!!”) Some sloppy and lazy writing overall, but it could have been much, much worse.”

  68. Took me most of the day to realize that this kind of had the sitting by the fire ending of the Dragonlance Chronicles series, which is a wellspring of long-repressed uber-geekdom for me.

    But it was a terrific ending. I welled in the way manly men are willing to show emotional appreciation for touching moments and heartstring tugging. Welled I said.

    I agree that BKV was very much an unsung savior of the show. The highs the show hit during seasons 3-5 were not quite reached in season 6, and I think he helped bring a greater honestly to the supernatural elements which J.J. Abrams was originally so instrumental in imbuing the show with.

    I’ll be very much looking forward to rewatching the show at some point, hopefully not too soon, with a nice companion guide a la The Bloomsday Book that helps unpack some of the allusions and interconnected elements of the story. I am looking forward to not having to watch it a day later, avoiding internets and blogospheres to remain spoiler free.

    I think Lost really was a story about stories, falling in line with The Sandman and The Name of the Wind, with If On a Winter’s Night a Traveler and of course the Arabian Nights, with Cat’s Cradle and on and on.

    Now I can kill my television.

  69. CBrown says:

    “. . . the worst finales such as the recent BATTLESTAR GALACTICA and THE X-FILES.”

    Sorry Charles, but the very worst finale was the last episode of the US version of Life On Mars. I still get mad just thinking about it.

  70. Cheryl Harris says:

    As far as Desmond, something tells me the scene we did not get to see was him going over to the other island, reclaiming what had originally been his boat (the one referred to as “Locke’s boat”, which Kate and Sawyer took over to get on the plane), and sailing off to meet up with Penny and baby Charlie. With Hurley and Ben somehow making it so that he could find bearings, and navigate the proper course.

  71. I don’t get why anyone would think Hurly created the Sideways world. If he did then you can guarantee Michael would have been allowed into the church. Or at least existed in that sideways world. If Ana Lucia gets to be there than certainly Michael.

  72. The best series finales ever:

    THE SHIELD
    NYPD BLUE
    THE WIRE
    And I’d say TWIN PEAKS because it just flew in the face of everything a finale should do–killed most the major protagonists and reduced the “hero” to a demon-possessed madman.

    By the way, that whole “island underwater” thing was simply part of the Sideways “limbo” reality–like everything in that timeline NONE OF IT REALLY MATTERED–WHICH IS WHY A LOT OF US FEEL CHEATED. We spent how many hours total watching this timeline and they just wipe it away like that? THAT, my friends, is lazy writing.

    If the “Happy Ending” timelined had replaced the Island timeline, that would have made sense. But none of this makes any sense, and it was never intended to. All they ever intended to do was answer enough of your questions to give a SOMEWHAT satisfying sense of conclusion. I’d have to say they failed.

    Overall, the series was a real fun ride, but the ending was rather lame. Just like BSG. I mean seriously, after that ending–knowing what is waiting ahead–I don’t think I’ll ever want to go back and watch the whole LOST run again. It was the msytery of what’s happening and what’s really going on that made it fun to tune into each week.

  73. Brian Spence says:

    I’ll add my vote for The Wire having an amazing finale. I think it has some similarities with Lost’s finale, in that the show ends but life goes on and not everything is answered. But The Wire benefitted from stories that could be nicely wrapped up and didn’t have such fanboy service weighing it down.

    Wow, while typing that last sentence, a guy here at the restaurant fell off his bar stool and hit his head. He was conscious but not moving. I made the 911 call and did what I could to help until paramedics arrived. Crazy. He looked like he was going to be ok though. Now I’m still here thinking, “now what?”. Puts things in perspective.

  74. Brian Spence says:

    Ok, getting back to being a fanboy, how is it ‘lazy writing’ to take Walt or Mr Eko out of the show when the first grew too much and the second left the show? They also altered some of the show due to fan reaction, meaning the writers had a lot on their plate and yet still came up with a satisfying conclusion. Not lazy, admirable.

  75. @Beau Smith: soon as I saw Lapidus, I thought of you, brutha, and the big smile on your face as he and Richard flew off the island! I don’t know ya personally, and yet we still bond over whether or not Frank lives! Aren’t these boards awesome?

    Okay folks, three spoilers (yes, there are still spoilers); actually three unanswered questions ANSWERED via Kristin Dos Santos at E! Online. Yes, her perkiness can be annoying, but she was tight enough with Damon and Carlton to get a few last-minute answers, which she revealed in an online video:

    1. No. 42 on the candidates list: was it Sun or Jin? Answer: JIN. Because Sun was a mother.

    2. What happened to WAAAAALT? Answer: we will find out on the DVD in an extra scene.

    And my favorite…

    3. DID THE MAN IN BLACK/SMOKEY ACTUALLY HAVE A NAME?

    YES.

    IT WAS………..SAMUEL!

    The writers decided not to use it because they thought it would be cooler for him to be a nameless entity (Mom didn’t know he was coming, didn’t have a name for him, so he never had one).

    But apparently it WAS written that Allison Janney’s mother gave him a name: Samuel. Which in Hebrew means “Man of God,” implying he would be the “God who protects the island.”

    Lance Roger Axt
    AudioComics, LLC

  76. There are places I remember
    All my life though some have changed
    Some forever not for better
    Some have gone and some remain
    All these places had their moments
    With lovers and friends I still can recall
    Some are dead and some are living
    In my life I’ve loved them all…

    —“In My Life” Lennon/McCartney

    A more apropos BEATLES lyrics, imo; could just see Jack playing this song in his mind, slowly dying as Vincent lay next to him…

    Alright: the Finale. So— THIS was the concluding end point for the past 6 years? THIS the culmination of all the various plotlines? THIS was what Linde(x)Cuse came up with knowing that they had 2 years to wrap everything up?

    Could very easily see the LOST Finale being a repeat of the fandom divide over the BSG one… if not the great Lucasite Schism that developed over the Prequels. On one side the ‘Haterz’ and their niggling, hypercritical microscope of criticism— on the other side, the ‘Loverz’ and their acquiescing rationalisation of embrace. Been fun reading the Beat’s archive of LOST episode recaps and comments of the last 3 yrs; and been interesting to see how some observations and concerns over the show have been constant

    Me, am more on the former camp. As an SF fan, I think the Finale really dropped the conceptual ball. All the talk about the Dharma Initiative and their research on the Island’s mysterious electro-magnetic properties, all the talk about Faraday and his Time Travel research and experiments, all the discussion of Desmond’s Constant— and all that Juliet’s “it worked” revelation this final season— ALL of those washed away with the revelation that the “Sideways Universe” was just an imaginary spiritual waystation.

    Once again in American Television, Science and Religion entered the viewing screen: and one victor left: Religion. Jack, the first season’s “Man of Science” gradually morphed into his opposite “Man of Faith” over the series (but telling that his opposite “Man of Faith” became the vessel chosen by the series’ Big Bad?).Note how those other men of Science were given short shrift in the Finale: Alt-Desmond was just the tool to tell everyone that they were dead, Island Desmond the mistaken cork-puller; Alt-Faraday
    given a piano solo and then forgotten. Why? Because they weren’t important anymore, and
    Jack-the-new-Jacob had to fight unLocke-the-Man-in-Black; guess who won.

    (And:as a lapsed RC, not too keen on the implication of the LAX Alt-verse, “a place you all made so you can find each other” as being some sort of Purgatory. Dunno, didn’t see ANYONE in that Alt-verse in the active process of expiating their sins: weren’t they all better off for the most part? Other than Kate and Sayid, all the LOSTies shown seemed to be enjoying their stay in that world. Perhaps the better term to describe this LOST version of “the Matrix” is: LIMBO— a place where the Lost
    remain until called to Heaven. Or in Finale terms: until Desmond wakes them up to meet in a non-denominational church service for a “Christian Shepard”.)

    Like BSG’s Finale, LOST concluded with an affirmation of Faith over Reason, read: Religion over Science. But unlike BSG, with its talk of ‘the Gods’ and involving spiritual cyborgs(!), you can’t make the argument that such a series conclusion was already in the fabric of the show. Esp. when showrunners make statements early on that there will be NO supernatural elements in the series, that everything in the show can be rationally explained… but I suppose that this view ‘evolved’ over the six years?

    As a Finale, I rank LOST’s as below BSG’s (for all its faults), largely because I hated being manipulated emotionally by the overreliance of clips from previous episodes REPEATED over and over and over of huggings, kissings and tears being shed… along with the over-soundtracking of music forced from Giacchino to score them. (Oooh, more sappy synth strings, please! But where’s the brass blaaats?) LOST might’ve been the “Soap Opera of the Comic-Con crowd”— but even I was surprised at how the show dipped into the cliches of that genre for its Finale.

    On par with the DS9 Finale, and its eerily-similar conclusion of a spiritual Destiny, but waaay below ST:TNG’s in its satisfying wrapping-it-upness. The convoluted plots robbed LOST of a quiet Fade to Black ending of THE SOPRANOS'; and at least there wasn’t that cathartic gotterdammerung of the OZ Finale (well, except for Michael and Mr. Eko?).

    Wonder how will the series do in ‘stripped’ syndication— along all those SPOILERS revealed in the clips shown in the Finale— will new viewers glom on to it as deeply and involvingly as those viewers who were strung along all these past seasons? I think the decent acting of the cast (particularly those of Emerson and Quinn) will draw me to watch the repeats… as the Finale-made-pointless countless plots won’t.

    Six years of watching the show OVER and DONE WITH. (And there was much rejoicing.) Like locusts, the nerd television-viewing contingency will need new sustenance sources… now what’s this about FRINGE I hear? ;)

    Lapidus LIVES!

  77. Weird: above showed me as “and”.

    And? Must’ve been my FRINGE alt-verse me…

  78. Ronan Collins says:

    I wholeheartedly agree with ed’s comments above – though as a fan of Giacchino’s work I didn’t mind the over-use of the music as much as the clip-show feel.

    The thing that most disappoints me is that the writers (whom I appreciate changed over the course of 6 years) made such a big deal about events that happened and never followed up on them. A perfect example was the island being under water at the start of the current season (when they had everything mapped out) – they artificially created a mystery (why is the island under water?) when they knew that the LAX storyline was purgatory-lite.

    I don’t care about small items like MIB’s name and don’t expect them to spoon-feed every solution, but when they highlight mysteries themselves and make them out to be a big deal I expect some form of resolution.

    I just feel disappointed that IMO they took the easier solution of not explaining anything in the real world and instead went for the schmaltzy emotional ending.

  79. The best season finale out there was Six Feet Under! Come on people! I balled my eyes out for fifteen minutes straight AFTER the episode was over (and I’m not afraid to admit that, either.) :)

  80. ~chris says:

    Well, if you didn’t like the way LOST ended, maybe you’d prefer one of the alternate endings: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyKyjeRodd4

  81. Simon Fraser says:

    I may have missed it in the long list of comments above , but I thought it was fairly obvious that the Sideways-verse was Jack’s personal limbo. The place where everything works out for him , he is loved, nobody is pissed off at him. He manages to fix everything ( the love of his fictional son , Locke’s legs )That explains for example why Sayid went with Shannon instead of Nadia , who Jack didn’t know. All the other characters died in their own Limbos, this one was only Jacks , so only reflected his worldview.

  82. Trish Mulvihill says:

    When Hurley uttered that he had “a bad feeling” I instantly had a Legolas flashback. And then it all fell into place…. Jack finally accepting his role as the leader/chosen one (Aragorn)…. the final showdown with the Smoke Monster (Sauron). Okay maybe I’m stretching a bit, but it was fun to dissect it that way.

    There’s some good in this world – and it’s worth fighting for!

  83. Ronan Collins says:

    @ Simon Fraser

    Christian Shepard states that the “limbo” they are in is omething they ALL created as a means to meet up again. Further, the conversation between Hurley and Ben implies that they worked together for a long time, which is after Jack has died so he would not be aware of that. Plus, there were a lot of events in “limbo” that Jack could not be privy to but we were shown.

  84. PD Shaw says:

    My rough recall of (Christian) religion class is that the Sideways is the equivalent of purgatory. A waiting place, where souls are purified either through punishment, moral instruction or a time out. Meeting up and helping each other might have been means of facilitating an earlier departure.

    Michael appears to have been placed in Limbo with other souls that died outside of a state of grace, but not so evil as to be sent to Hell, nor redeemable for Heaven.

    Benjamin appears to be in the remedial program in purgatory; it will take him longer to move on. Indeed, being left behind may be part of the purification process. Benjamin appears to have had the advantage of a longer life than michael to repent and change.

  85. Ronan, do you not think that Jack would not have imagined his father saying that? It’s Jack fantasy and he can fantasize anything he wants.

    This is the Pan’s Labyrinth interpretation.

    I’m still of two minds about it. Which is as it should be.

  86. Russell Impagliazzo says:

    Whether you think the end is a cop-out depends heavily on how you interpret it. Here’s what I think the end of the Sideways episodes means:

    The bomb successfully created a divergent timeline where the island sank to the bottom of the ocean. In this alternate timeline, some of the passengers had very different lives. Ben became a school teacher, Julliet was never recruited by the Dharma Initiative, so instead working at the same hospital as Jack, met and married him, and so on. However, instead of giving the Oceanic passengers a redo on life, this just meant that when their flight crashed, it went to the bottom of the ocean and they all died. (It needn’t be the exact same set of passengers. )
    However, many of the passengers had a karmic connection to each other based on their shared lives in the other timeline. They could not move on to the afterlife until this was resolved. The Sideways events were joint mental constructions based on their previous lives in the divergent timeline, and echoes of their memories in the original timeline. (If you need more rationalization, the plane had sunk to be on the remnants of the island, which was shown many times to be a place where souls of the dead lingered.) The people at the church were those on the flight in the Sideways timeline that had a connection to the island events in the original timeline, not those who died in the original timeline.
    So a bit mushy, but not a real cop-out.

    The events in the original time-line are as depicted. Time-traveller Desmond gets flashes of the Sideways timeline, and gets confused about which is the psychic construction. Otherwise, Sideways reality does not effect the events, although those who die have a fleeting brush as the two parts of their souls reconnect. A few survivors flee the island, presumably to raise Aaron and Jin and Sun’s kid respectively, and Hurley and Ben stay as the new protectors.

    That’s my theory and I’m sticking to it.

  87. hikaru go says:

    @ Ed: I was thinking the same thing about the spiritual/science aspect. Most people who consider themselves religious/spiritual probably enjoyed the ending much more than materialist thinkers. I’m not religious so that ending was kind of meh. I was really into the sci-fi aspects. And the hatch, Farraday, the a-bomb, electromagnetism, the dharma initiative, etc. Those weren’t minor subplots. They drove the story. Leaving it open about what happened when Juliet detonated the bomb has nothing to do with having it spoon fed. It was a major plot point. It’s not about giving answers but everything to do with coherency. If the meta-narrative of the show was to be ‘lost’ with the characters, the setting could have been anywhere…a haunted house, a crazy carnival, Wasilla, Alaska…that’s why it’s cheapened in the end.

    Also, throughout the series every time we were left with a dangling plot thread the writers would kill off the character the idea was tied to as a resolution. It’s kind of hilarious to think that they used this device to end the entire show…hey, let’s just make EVERYONE dead! If they want to get all relgiousy, ‘everyone dies’ is not a very deep philosophical idea.
    (Note: The last thing I want to do is turn this into a science/religion debate so sorry if that’s how it comes off).

  88. Mark Coale says:

    I like the idea I saw that was purported to be from a LOST writer on Lostpedia –

    Dharma was brought to the island by jacob to deal with MIB. MIB, then, got control of Ben and used him to get rid of Dharma.

  89. hikaru go says:

    That is a cool idea but that would mean Richard would have to be working with the MIB too and he was loyal to Jacob.

    We do know Widmore was working with Jacob…

  90. Here are my two cents: I don’t think Sayid ended up with Shannon because Jack didn’t know Nadia. I think he ended up with her because the whole theme of the episode, and the overarching theme of the show, was resolution, redemption, letting go, and moving on.

    Sayid had a very tattered past with Nadia. He tortured her, despite the fact that he also helped her escape execution. He always felt terribly guilty and it was a wedge that was always between them. They were never able to make a really pure connection, despite the love they felt for one another.

    By the time Sayid and Shannon get together, Sayid is not the same man. With Shannon, Sayid is not that guy, he is not the torturer/killer, etc. Even if he uses those skills at times, he is different in his heart, so the connection these two make is the first time that Sayid ever loves someone he doesn’t need to feel such guilt and shame with. Shannon is the way that Sayid lets go of Nadia and moves on. He finds resolution with her.

    Ben chose not to go into the church, not because he is going to hell. Remember again – the overarching themes are resolution, moving on, redemption. Though Ben was important in Jack’s world, Jack wasn’t as important in Ben’s. This is a construct THEY ALL created, to help them move on. So Ben waits. He’s still working through stuff, and he’s not ready to let go. Personally, I think he’s waiting for Alex. She’s the one that would be more important to him.

    But, man, it was great to see my beloved Locke completely himself again. After all that time he spent as “UnLocke,” it was a wonderful treat.

  91. Ronan Collins says:

    Apologies if it appeared I was shouting down someones interpretation – there is certainly no empirical data to say one view was certainly correct.

    However, in my opinion, we as the viewer are given a fact by Christian Shepard that is not contradicted by any other on-screen characters. Christian’s statment is further corroborated by the diverse “limbo” viewpoints we say that Jack himself did not witness (Kate’s LAX advanture, Sun being shot etc) and in my opinion it is unlikely that Jack’s personal limbo would contain such diverse events.

    Anyways, I can see the other view and it doesn’t detract from my real problems with “Limbo” which are why the island was shown to be at the bottom of the ocean? Why did Jack create a world where he had married Juliet and had a fake son? How was Desmond able to translate between the real world and “Limbo”. I appreciate the story-telling conceit for trying to keep people guessing about what “Limbo” could be, but I think they went too far with what they showed and mis-led people.

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