Rob Liefeld quits DC

Recent tweets seemed to indicate that Rob Liefeld and DC were not exactly on the same page on the books he was writing at DC. Here are the tweets of the last 10 minutes:

Just finished sending my thank you’s to DC personnel. Officially got off the DC52 treadmill this morning…
Scott Clark will be replacing me p. Deathstroke. Marat will continue the work on Grifter…I had a great time at DC.
I believe in what DC is doing, but had to preserve my sanity.
The 0′s are my last issues. Thanks for all the love.
I walked off all 3 books. Can’t wait to see any attempts to spin. I have every email.
This is the 4th time I quit in the last 4 months. This time it will stick.

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Liefeld was a big part of the New 52 launch a year ago and had been gradually picking up work as others left. But now…his run is over. He was writing THE SAVAGE HAWKMAN, GRIFTER, and DEATHSTROKE last we heard. He told CBR he was soldiering on despite some unstable sales:

Rob Liefeld: I have no idea of the long term fates of any of these titles; that’s well above my concern. I was asked to spice these books up and we managed to jump every book with issue #9. If you chart each book from their launch, each was having a rapid fall sales wise. It’s over at ICV2, listed under “actual” sales. We stemmed the bleeding and the patients are healthier now, albeit in a very competitive market that favors what I deem the 1% — Batman, X-Men, Spider-Man, Avengers. No variants, no incentives. We are doing it with story, character…the old fashioned way.


Liefeld’s Twitter stream of late indicates he might be going back to his creator-owned work. A relaunch of the Liefeld-verse as a Moebius-inspired SF line at Image has been a critical and sales success this year.

Developing.

UDPATE: You’ll want to just keep it locked on Liefeld’s Twitter, but it seems the usual cause was the culprit: Editorial interference.

Comments

  1. Jeremy H says:

    I love the defensiveness of his post, already decrying the “spin” and asserting he’s kept all the emails before anyone has even said a word about him.

    So now that it’s proven that he’s no longer a sales draw, will any publisher give him another chance? How long before the blind spot that seems to cloud people’s minds and make them forget Liefeld’s awful work ethic returns and he gets put back on another high profile project, or convinces some poor trusting creator to jump in bed with him?

  2. “I was asked to spice these books up and we managed to jump every book with issue #9.”

    There was a small boost on DEATHSTROKE, but neither HAWKMAN nor GRIFTER showed any effect at all from Liefeld’s intervention.

    My guess is that the whole bunch will be gone in a few months, based on the abysmal sales.

  3. Pops Gustav says:

    Liefeld bashing is easy, but sometimes easy isn’t synonymous with unwarranted (Kenny G sucks, too).

    Liefeld represented the worst of the over-rendered, hyper-detailed, anatomically inept, nihilistic style that dominated (and, for many including myself) ruined mainstream comics in the ’90s. When Jim Lee (another one I’m not crazy about) brought him along to work on the New 52, it only cemented my alienation from DC.
    I am not sorry to see him go, but I doubt it’s enough to bring me back.

  4. Deathstroke was one of my favorite DC characters before the new 52 he had a series run for 60 issues, but the new 52 made him a generic 90s Image comics “badass” (we know he’s a badass because they kept telling us he is, clearly someone missed storytelling 101)

    There is no reason why this series can’t be a hit with a real talent behind it. Deathstroke could be DC answer to Wolverine if done right but no one since Wolfman has been able to handle him.

  5. Brian Wood says:

    I’m surprised that people think the story here is merely “Rob sucks”.

  6. You beat me to it, Bri…

  7. Like Josh (above) with Deathstroke, I have a real soft spot for Hawkman… probably harkening back to my Super Friends days of the early 80s. The first issue of Hawkman’s New 52 debut was strong, but it went pretty flat pretty quickly. And not to be a jerk or to pile on, but I had no interest in Liefeld’s work, and did not sample it. The man’s art is an acquired taste, methinks, and I don’t think my palette is adequately developed.

    DC goes to considerable repeated lengths to re-magine and re-introduce Hawkman. And I agree, the character can be compelling and cool. I think that is the character and his world really are priorities for DC, as they seem to implicitly suggest, they need to put their money where their mouth is and just put top talent on the character a la Johns’ and Reis’ Aquaman rehab. I know the man is busy, but Lemire could really rock the character, too.

  8. Synsidar says:

    The creator isn’t always right. Unless the changes in a story that an editor wanted are described in some detail, an onlooker can’t know who was at fault. If the editor wanted material sensationalized, and the writer didn’t, that would suggest that the editor’s intentions were bad, but— It’s not as simple as an editor complaining to a writer, “Hey, there’s supposed to be a sex scene in every chapter! Where are they?!”

    SRS

  9. Kevin says:

    Well, I’m enjoying the “Liefeld verse” stuff at Image. And look, using Rob Liefeld as a punching bag for the, pretty unwarranted attack, on the 90s era of comics is getting old. And I’ll be honest when I was actually a kid, yes a kid who bought mainstream superhero comics, Liefeld’s covers/art really popped for me. Listened to an interview with him from word balloon and frankly, he doesn’t seem like a bad guy. I think who is ever really sour on him either were fans at one point, but due to late books will always see him as some kind of monster or just like to make the easy joke against his artwork. (Which frankly, I kind of like, some of it anyway, yes, I’m prepared to be tarred and feathered).

    It’s just more of DC/Marvel sticking with the editorial mandate of company first, creators second. That’s it. Kind of shocked they still have creators names on the covers.

  10. Kwaku says:

    Whatever anyone thinks of Liefeld, this talk of last minute changes by editors has been repeated by a lot of others writers and is worrying.

  11. monopole says:

    They were probably asking him to draw feet or something…

  12. It’s pretty obvious that editorial control is the biggest story at DCU editorial right now.

  13. Blacaucasian says:

    I wonder if you look at the books that have had these editorial interference problems, if it’s the same editorial culprits that end up coming up over and over again (John Rozum off of Static; Gail Simone off of Firestorm; George Freaking Perez off of Superman; Paul Cornell off of Stormwatch)

    The only blip in the Bat office, for instance, was the Amy Reeder/J.H Williams shake-up, which from all evidence seemed to come down to those two creators not getting along more then anything directly editorial. Even the early whispers of the Snyder/Capullo unease has been turned into the two seemingly being thick as thieves now.

    It seems to me that DC might want to start looking at replacing people on their editorial staff over the musical chairs they keep playing with creators.

  14. HURRAY! (sorry, but Liefeld on a couple of the titles I was reading completely killed them for me)

    That said, I think it sucks that DC editorial has derailed so much of this relaunch. It is clear that a lot of people were not on the same page at launch time and it is ridiculous that the publisher would stage such a major content shift without having all their ducks in a row.
    There are people who frankly should be losing their jobs over this lack of a consistent and well-planned roadmap (editorial level — and I’m also looking at you Dan Didio).

  15. Yeah, I mean, when your creator friends take a quarter million dollars for the privilege to fuck over one of their peers — the guy who pretty much single-handedly built what turned out to be the basis of their “careers” –, then that is just how deals are made, and we all know that going in, and don’t judge anyone, no no no. But when DC starts rewriting your precious copy or genius plots on COMPLETIST BAIT MONTHLY, then, holy shit, there’s something nasty going on for sure, and we are all terribly surprised and properly shocked how a thoroughly ethical company like DC Entertainment could stoop so low. There is no hypocrisy in the U.S. comics industry. Cash your checks, hype your buddies. All will be well.

    Dismissed, and no need to thank me.

  16. I think it is a testament to Rob’s will that he did last as long as he did here, where he is far far far from the first to duck out exiting stage left. I just wish he’d show that will and perseverance more often, instead of finding reason to not last more than 2 or 3 issues anywhere, and certainly not on a monthly.

  17. That went pretty quickly from “sending my thank you’s to DC personnel” to DC People Suck. That said, yeah, the complaints about random, repeated and last-minute are universal and quite worrisome.

    “I’m surprised that people think the story here is merely “Rob sucks”.”

    Oh, never be surprised about that. There will always be people who find that to be the story, whether Rob is even involved or not.

  18. @Marc-Oliver Frisch

    AMEN.

  19. Bill Scurry says:

    I’m reading the Snyder books, but not much beyond that. I can’t find any traction with the Lee/Johns direction of things — and Superman has been a mess. I wish there was a more cogent thing going on at DC, and I think Rob is pointing backstage to what we are seeing as upfront readers.

  20. Pops Gustav says:

    I don’t read any DC books these days, and have always loathed Rob Liefeld’s work, so, forgive me if that’s what resonated for me with this story. DC’s editing style would seem to be just the tip of its current mismanaging iceberg.

    DC just seems lost, unsure of how to handle its characters, flailing around to appeal to everyone while appealing to almost no one, unable to create any kind of synergy with DC Entertainment, putting its foot in its mouth with the initial Kubert statement… It’s a mess from top to bottom.

  21. Talmidge says:

    It’s weird that Liefeld is actually a pretty nice guy in person when I met him at a con but online he comes across as a massive douche bag. (same with Eric Larsen)

  22. Dean Hacker says:

    Rob Liefeld is what he is. Everyone has bought a Liefeld comic at this point. You either liked it or you didn’t.

    All of which is very old news.

    What is interesting is how DC editorial seems to be squandering the huge marketing push that the New 52 gave the DC line. Other than the sure things (i.e. – the Geoff Johns tiles, Morrison on Superman, etc.), the story of the New 52 seems to be lots of sampling with very low retention. Marketing did its job, got readers to try these titles and most people didn’t like what they found.

    What this departure suggests is that maybe there is a reason for that.

  23. Oh goodie, it’s any article involving DC Comics at all, so OF COURSE it’s suddenly about Before Watchmen.

  24. Snikt Snakt says:

    Can’t really say I’m surprised, I think we all can agree it was a mistake to hire him on those books in the first place.

    Just cancel them and be DONE with it…

    @Josh, I agree w you 100% concerning the depiction of Deathstroke. He’s never been better since his 90′s series.

  25. Cory!! Strode says:

    Weird…it’s almost like the stories we heard in the 90′s out of Marvel where the editors were the ones who wrote the books and writers would get their plots changed and dialogue rewritten to fit different plots than the ones they turned in. I wonder why that is? /sarcasm

  26. Peter says:

    This whole reboot has been disorganized & messy. Outside of the top five or six books, no one seems to have a clear idea of who their characters are or where they’re going. Hate on Liefeld all you want, but IMO he’s nowhere near the cause of the problem here.

  27. Adam S. says:

    It starts at the top. You’ve got the steadily-widening division between Camp A (DiDio and Lee) and Camp B (Johns and Nelson), with Harras (according to many insider reports) doing absolutely nothing but sitting on his ass. With these 5 unable to agree or come to a consensus on anything, it then trickles down to rest of editorial, with the writers and artists stuck at the bottom and holding on for dear life or quitting.

    Used to be you could just go to Marvel, but things are even worse there.

  28. @Jeremy: “I love the defensiveness of his post, already decrying the “spin” and asserting he’s kept all the emails before anyone has even said a word about him.”

    Dude. He’s Rob Liefeld.

    Assuming people on the Internet are going to say insulting things about him isn’t egotistical, it’s just a statement of fact.

    @Brian Wood: “I’m surprised that people think the story here is merely “Rob sucks”.”

    I can’t say I’m SURPRISED by it…

    @Synsidar: “The creator isn’t always right.”

    No, but the more creators you get singing the same song, the likelier it is that they’re ALL right.

    If it were just Rob Liefeld complaining about editorial interference, that would be one thing. But this line rang true as soon as John Rozum started talking about what happened on Static Shock, let alone George Perez’s talk about Superman. (And, as Blacaucasian mentioned, we’ve heard similar from Simone and Cornell, too.)

    I really don’t think it’s a coincidence that my favorite books coming out of DC — Dial H, Frankenstein, Animal Man, Demon Knights — are the ones on the far fringe of the Big Superhero Universe stuff, subject to the least editorial interference.

    @Niels: “Oh goodie, it’s any article involving DC Comics at all, so OF COURSE it’s suddenly about Before Watchmen.”

    Er, I admit I’ve only skimmed the comments section…did I miss where somebody besides you mentioned Before Watchmen?

  29. Talmidge says:

    Well yes the creator is always right because you pay him to write or draw the story. The creator is not always good, but especially with a guy like liefeld who has been around for 20+years you already know what you’re getting and to ask for something else is not letting the writer or artist do what they were hired to do. Good or bad he gave them Rob Liefeld, if they wanted something else they should have gotten something else.

  30. blacaucasian says:

    “This whole reboot has been disorganized & messy.”

    Blanket statements like this don’t seem true wide line to me at all. The people who have walked off of books are relatively small compared to the over all line. I would actually argue that the specific problems that seem to be coming out seem to be directly related to specific editors.

    The Bat office has sales, has largely overwhelming happy and steady creative teams, and has allowed people to be involved in crossover or not (night of the owl) based on creators decisions, has allowed Grant Morrisson to do his own thing to finish his own story with very little fanfare to the continuity differences between his book and other books, and has seemed to handle any creator dustups (Hadley/Williams; Finch’s writing experiment; early trouble between Capullo and Snyder) internally and professionally.

    The Green Lantern books have similarly seemed to have very little problems.

    The inter related teen books have seemed to all develop fairly organically and are among my big surprises of what I’ve liked so far from the 52.

    Those examples alone make up at least 25% of the monthly content, and when you look at it it seems it’s a very small percentage of books with the complaints of editorial interference (Stormwatch, Firestorm, Static, Superman, the three Liefield books, which, having one creator on all three books would be more symptomatic of a problem between this particular creator and DC editorial then three separate problems.) Counting titles that’s just short of 15% of the books.

    While I can’t deny there’s definitely some wrongs signals being sent out and some books mismanaged by editors, I think saying the whole relaunch line wide was messy and disorganized seems to me to be both inaccurate and hyperbolic.

  31. blacaucasian says:

    Thad – “Yeah, I mean, when your creator friends take a quarter million dollars for the privilege to fuck over one of their peers — the guy who pretty much single-handedly built what turned out to be the basis of their “careers” –, then that is just how deals are made, and we all know that going in, and don’t judge anyone, no no no. But when DC starts rewriting your precious copy or genius plots on COMPLETIST BAIT MONTHLY, then, holy shit, there’s something nasty going on for sure, and we are all terribly surprised and properly shocked how a thoroughly ethical company like DC Entertainment could stoop so low. There is no hypocrisy in the U.S. comics industry. Cash your checks, hype your buddies. All will be well.

    Dismissed, and no need to thank me.”

    I believe this is (not a very thinly veiled) reference to Before Watchmen.

  32. Excitement ≠ Liefeld
    BUT
    Excitement = Fabian Nicieza

    Delivered on time = Fabian Nicieza
    Can work well with others = Fabian Nicieza
    Solution? Call Fabian, and keep the artists on the books.
    Done.

  33. Whoops, yep, missed that.

    In that case, I’m with Niels; I’m not crazy about Before Watchmen either, but if we want to talk about Before Watchmen there are plenty of other threads where it’s more appropriate.

  34. “Rob Liefeld is what he is. Everyone has bought a Liefeld comic at this point. You either liked it or you didn’t.”

    I can honestly state, Dean, that I have never purchased a single Rob Liefeld comic. Oh, I’ve been tempted to pick up Captain America #1 or some such in the buck bin, just to experience the horrors within, but my sheer taste and willpower have always prevented me from doing so. :)

  35. It’s not like he needs the money!

  36. Always hated his art, thought Image was unbelievably bad when it started. Now I think there is some kind of crazy charm to his art.
    DC is all about editorially driven events. Can’t even imagine how creators get anything done there. Wouldn’t be able to create under such strict regulations.
    Prophet and Glory totally rule right now, some of the most creative stuff out there.

  37. blacaucasian says:

    “DC is all about editorially driven events.”

    Like? Their last two events “Night of the Owls” in the Bat books and “The Third Arm” in the Green Lantern are, from all accounts, Snyder and Johns (creator) driven.

    The next “Joker” event is from all accounts, Snyder (creator) driven.

    The “Trinity War” event planned for next year is by all accounts Geoff Johns (cretor) driven.

    The “Rotworld” event is, by all accounts, Lemire and Snyder (creator) driven.

    Hell, even their last two events, Flashpoint and Final Crisis were Johns and Morrison (creator) driven.

    From every account I’ve read, creators were asked if they wanted to be involved in these events as opposed to told they had to be (the last Bat event being a prime example).

    Sorry, but, I’m just not seeing an example of that.

  38. faustino perez says:

    I, too, have never knowingly purchased a Rob Liefield book, not even from the dollar bi, not even from the quarter bin. I’ve SEEN his work in borrowed trades (Supreme, I think. Did he do that?) and hated it. I have no particular animus against him, I’m sure he’s a nice fella and all that. I don’t care for his work and so, do not really care that Hawkman is without an artist. (I mean, it’s HAWKMAN! How can THAT fail?)

    I DO, however, do a giddy little dance of glee (not FROM “Glee”) whenever DC shoots themselves in the hindquarters. They’re obviously TRYING to do that and I applaud their methods.

    Anyone who defends DC at this point doesn’t realize that the iceberg has already hit the boat and that’s why the band is playing as loud as it can. (LALALAICAN’THEARYOU)

  39. @Dean Hacker
    “Rob Liefeld is what he is. Everyone has bought a Liefeld comic at this point. You either liked it or you didn’t.

    All of which is very old news.

    What is interesting is how DC editorial seems to be squandering the huge marketing push that the New 52 gave the DC line. Other than the sure things (i.e. – the Geoff Johns tiles, Morrison on Superman, etc.), the story of the New 52 seems to be lots of sampling with very low retention. Marketing did its job, got readers to try these titles and most people didn’t like what they found.

    What this departure suggests is that maybe there is a reason for that.”

    Reposted because it’s the goddamned truth.

  40. LobsterAfternoon says:

    blacaucasian – wait, you really think Flashpoint was creator-driven? A crossover that lead into a line-wide reboot is creator driven? Buh?

  41. Blacaucasian says:

    “Anyone who defends DC at this point doesn’t realize that the iceberg has already hit the boat and that’s why the band is playing as loud as it can.”

    I absolutely agree that they have some editorial issues at DC that need to be addressed.

    But saying that they resemble an iceberg that hit the boat is, again, just slightly hyperbolic.

    The large majority of their books in the top 50 are far over the 1 and 2 year sales of those books in the recent past, a year after the launch. Any increase in sales number,e specially with the market the way it was before the launch, can’t really be considered a failure.

  42. Blacaucasian says:

    Lobsterafternoon – It was planned out by Geoff Johns at least a year if not further out as a story. He is a creator. As such, I consider it a creator driven event. All the supplemental interviews I’ve read around it is that John’s ending provided them an opportunity to slap the relaunch on, not that they told John to come up with an idea where they could relaunch the universe.

    If you can find evidence otherwise, I’ll be more than happy to cede your point.

    Infinite Crisis was no doubt editorially driven. 52 started out to be editorially driven for sure. Countdown to Final Crisis was for sure editorially driven. Before Watchmen is obviously editorially driven. My point is not to say that DC does not make editorially driven comics. It’s foolish to say they don’t. And usually they fail.

    However, the point being made that I was refuting is that they are all about editorially driven comics. And not only, from what I’ve read, is that not true, but it’s also not fair to creators who are fueling some of these events from organic story ideas instead of editorial mandate.

  43. faustino perez says:

    @ blacaucasian – Indeed, I was being hyperbolic. Here’s another one – if 10% of the new52 lasts another year, I owe you a sandwich of your choice.

    DC Editorial has been a mess for quite some time now. The shuffling of creators, the interference from on high, the cancellation of hyped books that went nowhere(not to mention what they did to my beloved Jonah Hex *sob*) are more than ample proof that something is very rotten in Denmark.

    Oh well. Maybe the movie division will pick up the slack …

  44. “Liefeld bashing is easy….” Yes, it is. And sometimes it’s missing the point.

  45. Maverickman874 says:

    He needs to bare all in a Word balloon podcast.

  46. Johnny Memeonic says:

    During the late 80′s and 90′s Bob Harras and his inner circle exercised strong editorial control that forced out creators that didn’t like that management style, most famously causing Chris Claremont to leave X-men after like 17 years on the book.

    Now Harras and a lot of the same people are at DC managing the New 52. Why would anyone expect a different kind of editorial style all of a sudden?

  47. LobsterAfternoon says:

    blacaucasian – Johns has been more than just a creator for years, even before all the new 52 hullaballo. He has been chief creative officer since 2010, and before that, he and Morrison had some nebulous job description that was beyond simply being writers for hire.

  48. Andrew Farago says:

    Stories originated by Geoff Johns straddle the line between creator-driven and editorially-driven. They may flow naturally from the books he’s writing, but he’s also “The Man” at DC.

  49. Richard H says:

    Why don’t we wait to hear DC editorial’s side of things, before everyone weighs in opinion-wise – to get a balanced perspective? Rob Liefeld is ONE creator. Maybe his work ethic didn’t line up with DC’s – but that doesn’t mean it’s all DC’s fault. It just means he and they were incompatible. Liefeld DID take those books on, after all.

  50. Chris Hero says:

    I’m late to the party, but I think his success with the recent Extreme books plus his old Awesome line show Liefeld to be one of the best editors ever. Oh, and he’s the only guy to make a superhero character since Wolverine people who’ve never stepped into a comic store have heard of. The dude is a success who knows what he’s doing.

  51. To echo what many have said above re. Deathstroke: I loved Wolfman’s 90s run; it made him a solid anti-hero with really depth and pathos (particularly the price his actions have had on his family over the years).

    At his best he was the Jason Bourne of the DCU (its almost a more relevant pitch now than it was then, right?).

    -AK!

  52. The Gibbler says:

    Honestly I couldn’t believe he was working for DC, seeing some of the books on the shelves made me cringe. I really don’t get it, there was a time when his style didn’t stand out that much, but hindsight is brutal. I had the initial run of X-Force like everyone else, but just like I stopped watching Seagal movies so I stopped pretending Liefeld was someone I wanted to give my eyes to. It got increasingly worse when I started critically evaluating my own art. Other than some misguided nostalgia I don’t see how this person was so successful in this industry. I know if I drew like he does I wouldn’t get any work.

  53. How dare the editors in a shared, continuity-driven universe interfere in books that are in the shared continuity.

  54. blacaucasian says:

    “Why don’t we wait to hear DC editorial’s side of things”

    Given their history discussing behind the scene’s issues, you’re going to be waiting an awfully long time…

    As far as John’s and Morrison having “extra-editorial” input I’m pretty sure that’s over. As far as Johns and Morrison not really being “creators” anymore so therefore the books they write can’t be creatively driven…it’s a convenient argument to use that I respectfully disagree with.

    I’m really not interested in arguing semantics of what percentage of what they right is creative and editorial. That’s foolish. And it still doesn’t account for all the “events” since the relaunch that, by all accounts, have not been editorially driven.

    Again, and semantics aside, the only point I was attempting to point out was this blanket statement that DC is being run primarily by editorially driven events is factually incorrect.

  55. Ziggy says:

    This note, about the joke that Rob Liefeld has always been, gets 56 comments in a day while the two lateral notes about the dead of a true master of the medium get a total of 5 comments.

    You bicht about Rob Liefield? That´s exactly why editors keep bringing him up.

    You are willing to keep bichting about Rob Liefeld? Well, you don´t deserve better.

  56. blacaucasian says:

    P.S. LobsterAfternoon – It was pretty clearly stated when he got the COO position that, aside from writing his books, he had nothing to do with editorial of monthlies at DC. His job as COO is guiding the translating of DC IP into TV, movies, cartoons, and video games.

    I don’t know what John’s position as an editorial advisory was but I know Morrison’s was simply that he had new almost Julius Swartz like Silver-age like treatments for almost all the characters in the DCU that were in notebooks that he was likely never going to get to. Other writers were invited to use parts of or not use as they saw fit. Ryan Choi, for instance, was based on a Morrison idea, but fully developed and fleshed out by Gail Simone.

    Regardless, both men are still creators. The fact that they are best selling writers or that they consult on editorial ideas (that some writers might invite, may I add) doesn’t make the stories they wrote any less creator driven.

  57. LobsterAfternoon@gmail.com says:

    I’d say it absolutely makes their stories less creator driven.

  58. Well, I for one am highly entertained by the way every smartarse comics reader with an internet connection who’s spent the last 15+ years slagging off Liefeld as a talentless hack and mocking every word out of his mouth – ie all of them – has suddenly decided that his are important opinions that must be listened to respectfully, JUST when he starts saying rude things about DC Comics.

    No, wait – What’s that thing that’s like ‘highly entertained’, only in fact it’s the exact opposite?

  59. I just read all of this and Marc-Oliver Frisch said the only thing really worth reading. Go back up, close to the beginning.

  60. otistfirefly says:

    Wow. I can’t believe this conversation is even happening… which IDIOT at DC “Entertainment” ever thought to his or herself “Hey… let’s get LIEFELD!!! THERE’S a guy with a proven record of artistic integrity and REALLLLY creative ideas. And hey… let’s not just throw him a bone with his old Hawk & Dove, let’s give him FOUR books to work on!!!”

    Welcome to the Diane Nelson age of the once proud DC Comics. Anyone who is surprised by this turn of events is ignoring the fact that the minute they put a corporate plant in whose first interviews on the job yielded “But I’m the first one to admit, I’m not by my nature a comic fan,” it was a big F_YOU!! to DC Comics fans everywhere and a slap in the face to 75 years of proud tradition. We got Liefeld and his genius thanks to that kind of person running the show… deliver unto us higher stock prices and movie ideas, they said, and tell the comic nerds to shut the f88k up…

  61. I worry that Warners is taking more control of DC, and the books will have no real direction. A real creative voice (Christopher Nolan) made the Dark Knight movies-Warners took Green Lantern and Jonah Hex from the creators and added so much other junk (more toys! More special effects!) that the films stunk. Warners doesn’t understand comics, so they just add more stuff. Disney (headed by Pixar) and Marvel keep the films going through their creative hands–and the films are good and successful. Warners should just find one creative person to run editorial and one to do financials and have them storyedit the films–then they might have some hits!

  62. eddie blunt says:

    “A real creative voice (Christopher Nolan) made the Dark Knight movies-Warners took Green Lantern”

    personally I preferred GL(not great but ok movie).

    Dark Knight movies were incredibly boring I had trouble staying awake in the second on.

  63. Naveed says:

    Jesus people, why so harsh? I am not a huge fan of Rob, but some of these comments are plain old rude and unfair. You dont like his style, fine, but have a little respect for the guy. I dont like several artists you dont see me bach them online!

    I personally agree that the Death stroke title is not great (and I love that character), Hawkman (another one I like) is also not great, but thought his work on Grifter was good….better than the start of the series.

    I’ve been a DC fan forever and 1 year into the relaunch still cant believe people bitch all the time about it. Get over it; at least DC tried something new they are beter off than they were 2,3,4,5 years ago. The Gap with Marvel is tiny (even though their books are 1$ or 33% more expensive)….heck even Marvel is their idea with a soft reboot…..no one complains about that yet, and all that is, is a bunch of #1′s on titles already rebooted half a dozen times since 2000 which will revert to their original numbers next year. (Though I may pick up a couple). – Good luck Rob on the next projects you undertake.

  64. Colin.ynwa says:

    Its interesting that there are a lot of comments about the Nu52 going to the dogs, being messed up etc and it certainly seems evident that any number of creators don’t like the way things are being run at the moment BUT in the terms that DC deal with it still seems, from the outside, with the limited evidence I have to hand, to be a raging success. Still.

    Here’s The Beats figures for DC Universe titles average sales from the last report here.

    6 months: + 9.4%
    1 year : + 50.3%
    2 years : + 24.5%
    5 years : – 10.2%

    You need to go back 5 years (don’t know what was happening then but we know it was a bigger market) since sales where this good.

    Until those figures drop, and I’m sure some will come up with counter arguments and takes on those same figures, I’d guess the accountants and heads of DC couldn’t careless if Rob Leifeld is annoyed, or George Perez doesn’t want to be a part of things, its still a success on the level that the company will view things.

    No saying that’s right by the way but from the outside as I see it, as I say with very little evidence (the same most of us have), them’s the facts?

  65. “I worry that Warners is taking more control of DC, and the books will have no real direction.”

    Too late. An Aquaman/Robot Chicken cover, plus Superman and Wonder Woman getting it on like Frank Miller intended should already be telling signs that DC’s already creatively bankrupt.

  66. Jeremy Holstein says:

    (Wait… There’s another Jeremy H?)

    It’s not just Liefeld. Gail Simone, George Perez and Paul Cornell have all left “the new 52″ citing editorial chaos and draconian practices; editorial edits that seemed to change at a moment’s notice, last second re-writes of stories that had been approved months before. If it were just Liefeld that would be one thing, but Simone and Perez are long-time professionals who have been in the trenches for years. That they would walk indicates that the policies of DC Editorial are more stringent than ever before.

  67. Jeremy Holstein says:

    Oops, that should have been “editorial edicts.” Clearly I need an editor.

  68. Bob Dobalina says:

    I don’t think the problem people are having with Liefeld is him leaving DC via editorial edicts, it seems to be par for the course lately. But Liefeld has taken it very publicly and getting to the level of insulting editors and other artists. Between that and him ripping on Marvel in recent months, Image is his only haven…until he manages to piss off the founders and he’s booted from there.

  69. jonboy says:

    THE BEAT: “It’s pretty obvious that editorial control is the biggest story at DCU editorial right now.”

    Yeah. God forbid DC has bosses that make the creators do the job that they’re hired for. God forbid a DC editor didn’t have any faith in Rob.

  70. Travis says:

    “I just read all of this and Marc-Oliver Frisch said the only thing really worth reading. Go back up, close to the beginning.”

    What another rant about Before Watchmen? I’ve read them before. Nothing new being said.

  71. @nate: “A real creative voice (Christopher Nolan) made the Dark Knight movies-Warners took Green Lantern and Jonah Hex from the creators and added so much other junk (more toys! More special effects!) that the films stunk. [...] Warners should just find one creative person to run editorial and one to do financials and have them storyedit the films–then they might have some hits!”

    That’s…kinda what Geoff Johns does, isn’t it?

    I don’t think the problem with Green Lantern was that it was done by people who don’t understand the comics. I think the problem is that it was overseen by a guy who wanted to simultaneously juggle TOO MUCH stuff from the comics AND save the important stuff for the sequel.

    The cartoon’s been pretty good, though.

    @Naveed: “Get over it; at least DC tried something new”

    …All right, I’m legitimately curious: in what way do you believe a partial continuity reset, a bunch of renumberings, and Jim Lee costume redesigns qualify as “trying something new”?

    @jonboy: “THE BEAT: “It’s pretty obvious that editorial control is the biggest story at DCU editorial right now.”

    Yeah. God forbid DC has bosses that make the creators do the job that they’re hired for. God forbid a DC editor didn’t have any faith in Rob.”

    You’re right. If this were just about Rob Liefeld, then it WOULDN’T be a big story.

  72. I think the issue is not that there is editorial control of a shared universe but the quality that the editorial control is exhibiting.

  73. otistfirefly says:

    >>>>Until those figures drop, and I’m sure some will come up with counter arguments and takes on those same figures, I’d guess the accountants and heads of DC couldn’t careless if Rob Leifeld is annoyed, or George Perez doesn’t want to be a part of things, its still a success on the level that the company will view things.>>>

    It’s a success because they’re selling more books than they were. And that just goes to my point: bring up those sales numbers boys! F88k 75 years and the fans!! Yep, they’re selling more copies… big deal: they sold their soul in the process and said screw you to anyone that loved that company and kept it afloat all these years. You think any of the NuFans are going to stick with this shitt? And hey, Beiber sells a lot of songs, but that don’t put him in the category of being worthy to lick, say, U2′s boots.

    >>>>It’s not just Liefeld. Gail Simone, George Perez and Paul Cornell have all left “the new 52″ citing editorial chaos and draconian practices; editorial edits that seemed to change at a moment’s notice, last second re-writes of stories that had been approved months before.>>>

    And again… GEE, wonder why they’re doing that? Could someone be consistently looking to goose the sales? Next thing you know, they’ll try the old Superman/Wonder Woman getting it on gag and run that out the media and….

    … what? REALLY? Who woulda thunk?

  74. TonyJazz says:

    Goodbye Leifeld…. You won’t be missed by me (and you’ll possibly be replaced with someone with some talent!)….

  75. Shawn Kane says:

    “It’s pretty obvious that editorial control is the biggest story at DCU editorial right now.”

    I honestly never thought that there would be a more invasive editorial staff than Marvel but unfortunately, we’ve all seen instances in the New 52 where this is totally the case. I have no problem with doing proper service to the character, that’s one of the editor’s jobs (and as we’ve seen over the years BIG NAME CREATOR does tend to like to break the toys for their amusement) but there has to be a happy medium where a creator can tell a good story and the editor can make sure that’s done instead of the overkill that we’re getting right now.

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