Tea Party protests unintended CAPTAIN AMERICA portrayal

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cap602 Tea Party protests unintended CAPTAIN AMERICA portrayal
Tempest in a teacup? or…a tea bag? The first we got wind of this was a story on the right-leaning Newsbusters site protesting the portrayal of the Tea Party movement in the latest issue of CAPTAIN AMERICA penned by Ed Brubaker. Sounds simple enough since Brubaker is not shy about airing his liberal views. But it is not so simple.

Fox News got wind of the story, and it turns out, explicitly ID’ing the Tea Party movement was not Brubaker’s intention — although the ID came only in the form of a protester’s sign based on a real Tea Party sign.

Ed Brubaker, who wrote the story, told FoxNews.com he did not write the “Tea Bag The Libs Before They Tea Bag YOU!” sign shown in the edition, insisting that the words were added by someone in “lettering or production” just before being shipped to the printer. It will be changed in subsequent editions, he said.

“I don’t know who did it, probably someone who thought it was funny,” Brubaker wrote in an e-mail. “I didn’t think so, personally. That’s the sign being changed to something more generic for the trade reprint, because I and my editor were both shocked to see it.”

But the change may come too late to placate a chorus of critics who noticed the apparent jab at the Tea Party movement and who accused Marvel of making supervillains out of patriotic Americans.



More information emerged in this morning’s Cup o’Joe interview with Marvel E-i-C Joe Quesada who states:

There was zero discussion to include a group that looked like a Tea Party demonstration. Ed simply wrote in an anti-tax protest into his story to show one of the moods that currently exists in America. There was no thought that it represented a particular group.


According to Quesada, it was a production problem — the editor noticed some signs were blank and asked the letterer to put some words in, and the letterer googled some actual Tea Party signs, and added them in. However, the offending panel will be removed from future reprints.

The Fox News story went on to examine Brubaker’s public utterances:

He said he wrote the script “four or five” months ago, which was shortly before he posted critical messages on his Twitter account regarding former vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin, Minnesota Rep. Michele Bachmann and former President George W. Bush.

“Memo to Bachman and the rest of the tea crowd — We had a revolution already, it’s called an election,” Brubaker tweeted on Nov. 5.

Nine days later, he wrote: “What did we learn this week? That Sarah Palin is a lying idiot. Hey, welcome to 2008 again.”

But Brubaker was adamant that he did not intend to imply that the group of protesters in the comic book were Tea Partiers.

“I was simply using them to show the mood in the country in various places outside Captain America and the Falcon’s usual home, New York City,” he wrote. “It’s very similar to other things we’ve done in the comic, showing leftwing protest crowds back during the election season in 2008.”

Comments

  1. Michael says:

    Wow, talk about your craven responses. So the racist crazies who think Sarah Palin is the intellectual heir to William F. Buckley get angry at a comic they likely never read in the first place? Screw ‘em.

    Their hateful invective is just the kind of thing that the character of Captain America would fight against. People holding up signs of the President dressed at hitler or a voodoo priest, talking secession and generally shilling for a bunch of rich K street lobbyists should be mocked, and scorned and chased back under their rocks by the clean clear light of reason. These are people who lost their minds because a moderate democrat was elected president. One with a bit more melanin and a “funny” name.

    Marvel should have more balls and stop selling out some anonymous person in “lettering and production”. Brubaker, I know you want to keep your gig, but you sound like a corporate chump here man. Sadness.

  2. Mark Coale says:

    If they think that’s left leaning, I just read the Captain America arc by Mark Gruenwald back in the day when the now USAgent became Cap and boy, it almost reads like a parody, with cartoony right-wing era politicans and villains (and I say this as a liberal).

  3. Matt D says:

    Why is everyone being so apologetic to – out of all people- “The Tea Party” and Fox News? “Tea Bag The Libs Before They Tea Bag YOU!”IS funny.

    The correct response is “Fuck ‘em if they can’t take a joke.”

  4. If you don’t want to be a laughing stock, don’t act like an idiot in the public sphere.

  5. It seems like Marvel has taken a controversial approach to gain exposure and free publicity at FOX News. Comics are no longer about Code approved, traditional entertainment that worked fine in decades past. Now, you need to inject lowest common denominator content in order to project an illusion of sequential literary relevance to an adult readership and get noticed by the media, who surprisingly notice at all, a comics industry that has seen much better days 20 years ago.

  6. Tim Hamilton says:

    “the sign (is) being changed to something more generic”

    Ah, generic! Vanilla pudding for all!!

  7. Joe Helfrich says:

    I loved all the responses I saw on one of the right wing websites accusing Marvel of being part of the vast left wing media conspiracy and of hating all “real Americans” and similar nonsense.

    I can only assume that they haven’t read any of Civil War, which was why this particular lefty stopped reading most Marvel stuff (plus, I was, you know, broke.)

  8. Michael, before you start dumping on Brubaker, read Joe Quesada’s full explanation, which does explain all the steps that led to the sign being put in, albeit without naming who is to blame (“the letterer” and “the editor” instead of using actual names). I do think the whole controversy is ridiculous, personally, but I also hate teabaggers, so there you go.

  9. Well I’m a right leaning Libertarian and I wasn’t offended by the issue. I could have done with out that specific sign though. I know all the libs think using a “porno-phrase” against conservatives is just hilarious but I find it pretty crude & disgusting. But really it sounds like some are making a big deal over basically nothing.

  10. Larry, the “porno-phrase” was taken from an actual Tea Baggers rally.

  11. Not originally. I’m pretty sure that was coined by people against the Tea Party movement.

  12. Synsidar says:

    The selection of Boise, Idaho works against the argument that the Tea Partiers weren’t being portrayed. Idaho has a reputation as a habitat for right wingers. There was a Tea Party rally in Boise last September.

    If the writers are going to refer to real world politics, they might as well be specific with their references. One of the various problems with SIEGE is that Osborn is a political appointee running a criminal enterprise out of his office. Bendis tries to dispense with the political angles quickly in SIEGE #1 by fast-forwarding through the manipulation of the public that leads to the invasion, and then having the President complain that Osborn is acting without his authorization. In SIEGE #2, there are no political references at all, when the issue arguably should have ended with Osborn and his gang facing the heroes on one side, and the U.S. military on the other.

    Is the President in SIEGE supposed to be a Republican, a Democrat, or a feckless idiot who can’t do anything? Bendis needed to be specific, as do writers generally. Take a stance, and face the consequences.

    SRS

  13. To clarify -I’m talking about the term “Tea-Bagger”.

  14. You folks who hate the tea partiers now, just wait until after the November elections. Then you’ll really hate them.

  15. “Is the President in SIEGE supposed to be a Republican, a Democrat, or a feckless idiot who can’t do anything?”

    So, basically, a Republican, a Democrat, or Obama.

  16. Jackie Estrada says:

    I’m with Larry on this one. The wording on the sign is indeed inappropriate language to be in a comic book intended for all ages. Maybe the letterer who put it in had no idea of the sign’s crude sexual meaning.

  17. Synsidar says:

    So, basically, a Republican, a Democrat, or Obama.

    That’s the problem. Journalist/blogger Spencer Ackerman, for example, has been enthusiastic about “Dark Reign” and SIEGE because he’s interpreted Osborn and his political role as a slam at the Bush administration. A reader can’t take SIEGE as a political allegory directed at Bush and read the feckless president as being Obama.

    SRS

  18. Jackie, the comic book isn’t intended to be for all ages. It’s for 13 year olds and over.

  19. BUT…if you look at the art in Who will Wield the Shield (among other issues) it is obvious the Marvel Prez IS Obama….not too mention all the ASM issues with him in it.

  20. It’s not an age thing…it’s just gross. :-)

  21. kiyote says:

    The New Age of Heroism, eh?

    Sounds like total spinelessness to me. Are you quite certain you don’t want to pull a Levitz and recall/pulp the whole run? You know – just in case some illiterate nitwit decides to protest outside your building with a sign that reads MARVEL FULL OF MUSLINS.

    If only Gerber were still around to give this the send-up it deserves.

  22. Synsidar says:

    Well, “Dark Reign” began in December 2008.

    There are grounds for interpreting the President in SIEGE as Obama, grounds for saying that he is Bush, and reasons to say that Bendis shouldn’t have done “Dark Reign” with political elements if he wasn’t going to pick one party or the other. Osborn as the Director of National Security, etc., obviously wouldn’t be a Democratic appointee.

    SRS

  23. Come on, Jackie: if you still think mainstream MArvel comics are read by kids, you really need to visit a comic shop more often.
    And besides, if they do, they’d sooner know what “teabagging” means rather than what Tea Party historically stands for.

  24. Them teabaggers are mighty damned sensitive for a bunch of people who predicate their so-called protests on misinformation, hate mongering and bullshit. It kind of pisses me off that Marvel seems to be kissing their ass. (Using a, what was it,…”porno phrase” against them IS hilarious!)

  25. I’m not a “Tea-Party” guy or anything and of course some of the crap at those protests are pretty repugnant too but throwing the term tea-bagger around (I’m talking about CNN more than Marvel here) isn’t any better. Rise above folks….rise above.

  26. Odd, isn’t it? Using that phrase seems entirely appropriate to me. Regardless of who is using it.

  27. Steven – do you kiss your Mom with that mouth?

    :-)

  28. Jackie Estrada says:

    I’m with you, Larry–Mostly what I’m seeing here is posters taking the opportunity to be snarky and display a remarkable amount of anger at people who are exercising their constitutional right to protest against taxes and government spending. Again, the pejorative term for the Tea Party folks was not appropriate in the comic or on CNN.

  29. A couple things — the sign — as far as I can tell — is a legitimate sign carried at Tea Party rallies by Tea Party participants. So saying the sign by itself is sensationalizing the movement doesn’t hold up.

    However, I think the offense Brub and Joe Q were apologizing for was the specific IDing of the comic group as being Tea Partiers — a little more oblique but Cap has stayed away from that kind of explicit identification before.

    So, two separate objections.

  30. BTW I think anyone can use HTML in the comments now. Use it wisely.

  31. I know that was a real sign…and I think it was EVEN MORE stupid (and offensive)for a Tea Party member to employ the term than it was when the libs thought it up.

  32. Brian Davison says:

    The funny thing about exercising your Constitutional right to protest is that other people can exercise THEIR Constitutional rights to make fun of the protestors if they so desire.

  33. Shame on the Tea bagger movement. Shame on faux news. Shame on Ed Brubaker. Shame on Marvel editorial. Tea baggers: no one mis-represented you or your movement in that panel on a page of Captain America. THIS IS what you do isn’t it? Those signs ARE based on actual signs in your demonstrations aren’t they? Then what the frik are you complaining about? Faux News: Leave it to you to paint a right wing movement as improperly and unfairly represented. Nuff said on that front. Ed Brubaker and Marvel editorial: Ed, what are you apologizing for? If these are your views then so be it! Would Alan Moore apologise if presented with a similiar situation? I think not. As for Marvel, have the guts to stand by your creators when all they’ve done is accurately visualize movements which exist in the real world. I do applaud the letterer though.

  34. Good point. I just don’t think we need to so friggin’ crude about it. I don’t think Marvel needed to apologize though. It was based on a REAL SIGN.

  35. Hmmm…learned something new today. Was entirely naive about the term discussed until I looked it up.

    It’s possible the production person was as in the dark as I.

  36. scotty says:

    The funniest thing about the Tea Party movement is how much it gets under the skin of liberals/progressives/leftists. They claim the movement is a tiny, radical minority and yet they’re clearly terrified of them.

  37. “The funniest thing about the Tea Party movement is how much it gets under the skin of liberals/progressives/leftists. They claim the movement is a tiny, radical minority and yet they’re clearly terrified of them.”

    Merely 600 at the last rally…yeah, I’m SO SURE that the libs are “clearly scared” when I think that in reality, the correct words you were looking for are “laughing hysterically”. You betcha!

  38. I think my favorite Tea Party sign has actually been, “I can stimulate my own package.” That’s the advantage to being a non-partisan. I can laugh with or at both sides. I can also listen to both sides objectively without flying into a blind, hateful, rage. I’m with Jackie. No matter who’s side your on (the politicians win) it doesn’t belong in a all ages or 13 and above comic.

  39. Alan Coil says:

    Most/many/some/a-few-of the Tea Party members were proudly calling themselves Teabaggers. I would wager that most of them didn’t know what the ‘dirty’ meaning was. (And who am I to determine what is ‘dirty’?)

    They continued to use the term for many days, maybe even a couple weeks, until MSNBC mercilessly mocked them for using the term. Once they learned of the alternative meaning, they quietly stopped using it.

    To say that liberals blithely created the term to make fun of the Tea Party movement is lunacy. Liberals didn’t coin the term, they just pointed and laughed because of it.

  40. arch 14 says:

    I disagree with people calling Brubaker spineless. He’s pretty outspoken about his political beliefs. I feel confident that if he had intended the sign to read as it did, he would stand by it. However, if you’ve followed Captain America, it’s pretty clear that it’s stayed away from political labels of all types (though it does deal in generalities…conservative, liberal). This seems like a gaffe, plain and simple. Plus – is it that unrealistic that the author/scripter didn’t specifically state what every sign should say? I would be more surprised if he did – it seems that sort of detail is usually left to the artist.

  41. Alan – I’m not sure of your time-line there. And I thought some liberal pundit coined it. Anyone know for sure? Linkage?

  42. Alan Coil says:

    Larry, search out Urban Dictionary. The terms tea bagging and tea baggers have been listed there for ages. See also such commonly known (to those in the know) terms as Dirty Sanchez and Donkey Punch. It’s a whole ‘nother world.

  43. Oh, I know the terms ARE old! I mean there use as a derogatory term for Tea Party participant.

  44. kiyote says:

    “The funniest thing about the Tea Party movement is how much it gets under the skin of liberals/progressives/leftists. They claim the movement is a tiny, radical minority and yet they’re clearly terrified of them.”

    Terrified!??

    Hardly.

    There was a time when crazy, mentally-deficient loudmouths screaming incoherent blather in public were quietly carted away to The Happy Home. Now they have their own news network. And everyone walks on eggshells around them & apologies for making sport of their idiocy as if they are a legitimate & rational organization.

    Again, hardly.

    Terrified is not the right word – so much as exasperated.

  45. Jackie Estrada says:

    I actually researched that a few months ago (because someone on Facebook was wondering about it), and all the derogatory uses were in the liberal media (most prominently by Anderson Cooper) and on lefty blogs long before anyone in the Tea Party put the term on a sign. I could find only a few places where Tea Party folks referred to themselves as “Tea Baggers” and in those cases they tended to be throwing the term back at their deriders.

  46. Alan Coil says:

    There were several instances of teabaggers calling themselves teabaggers on video. Hard to Google video.

  47. There are no bad words. Only bad minds.
    We run the risk of ruining our own credibility by defending those who would describe themselves as a part of the, so called, Tea Party. Whether it is the use of a phrase that potentially denigrates them or their ideas or the legitimacy of their gripes. It’s lunacy and it really is too bad that Marvel, et al, didn’t mean it. In this day and age it seems ridiculous that someone would be upset about such an innocuous phrase and even more ridiculous that a major company would waste their time by acknowledging it.

  48. My own proclivities and affiliations aside(I’m trying to be stress-conscious and not work myself up into a political rant), last I checked we were still talking about a comic book.

    Please tell me people aren’t reading comics to get their news are they? Comics still fall under the category of entertainment right? Or did I miss a meeting? While I could take a cheap shot at Fox as a category of entertainment (ha, i did it anyway), and I’d love to see Ed Brubaker on the Daily Show to talk about this, it remains like any other creative media and by necessity maintains its larger world setting in our own.

    And honestly, it is a fucking placard in a panel of a comic book people. I mean, didn’t a guy get ripped in half in last week’s issue of Siege? We’re good on that one? Isn’t there a widespread problem with unrealistic depictions of women catering to an aging-adolescent male readership? Are we now ok with every woman in a comic book looking and dressing like a pornstar?

    Don’t we have 47 million people in this country without health insurance? How about the 1 in 4 children in this country who will experience hunger in their lifetime?

    Remember how there was that earthquake in Haiti – people continue to die there. But I’m glad Fox News found the time to focus on this issue. Solid. Real Solid.

  49. Calling the movement “tea-baggers” was absolutely the creation of the movement itself. They were trying to “update” the notion of a Tea Party, since few people use loose tea leaves. The earliest rallies had people wearing hats with tea-bags suspended from the brims.

    The activists who coined the term, however, weren’t aware of the sexual connotation. They learned it within a couple of weeks, though, when sites like TalkingPointsMemo.com or shows like The Daily Show were incapable of containing their hilarity. Then the pushback began, and the leaders tried to educate the members so that they wouldn’t be humiliated:
    http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/04/dont_let_that_teabag_smack_you_in_the_face.php

    But blaming the media, the left, Ed Brubaker, or Marvel for coming up with it just isn’t right. This anonymous letterer used an actual Tea Party sign, wielded at an actual gathering at which many children were present.

  50. Jackie Estrada says:

    Beg to differ. They didn’t coin it themselves. I followed this all closely when it first happened, bcause the language was so over-the-top. And seeing as how there have been Tea Party events all over the country where everyone brought their own homemade signs, the fact that one person had this particular sign at one event does not mean it is the emblematic one to identify the demonstrators. From all the photos I’ve seen over the psat year (and from the one event I was at in San Diego–the launch of the Teaparty Express), there have been almost as many different signs are there are attendees, ranging from the really clever to the truly idiotic. But 95 percent of the signs are pretty benign, such as “Liberty, Not Tyranny,” “Taxed Enough Already!” and “Vote Them Out.”

  51. Steve Rogers says:

    “Mostly what I’m seeing here is posters taking the opportunity to be snarky and display a remarkable amount of anger at people who are exercising their constitutional right to protest against taxes and government spending.”

    In other words, you’re using your right to free speech to complaining about people exercising their right to free speech to mock Teabaggers who are exercising their right to free speech to complain about government spending that never bothered them when the president was white.

    Glad we cleared that up.

  52. I was under the impression that the “tea bag” movement started as a protest, where people opposed to bailouts sent tea bags to Congresspersons.

    The term was in use by the Right based on that, when folks began pointing out what the euphemism had previously meant.

    Also, from this article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/18/teabagger-added-to-oxford_n_362504.html

    “Keith Olbermann took credit for popularizing the word on MSNBC Tuesday night. But the word “teabagger” actually started to spread after the Washington Independent’s David Weigel photographed a protester at the first D.C. Tea Party Protest in February holding the sign, “Tea Bag the Liberal Dems Before They Tea Bag You!!”

  53. The term “teabagger” isn’t a derogatory term thought up of liberals. It’s what people in the movement were calling themselves in the early days of the movement.

    Neal Cavuto of Fox News referred to “Tea Baggers” in one of his editorials on May 20, 2009. Am I now to believe that he’s part of the liberal media too?

  54. Matt D says:

    The first paragraph out the link above is stone classic:

    “Score one for the tea baggers. Those silly folks with their silly protests and their often silly signs and silly outfits and silly rants. Who’s silly now?”

    Irony they name is Cavuto.

  55. Dennis V. says:

    Brian Davison wrote: “The funny thing about exercising your Constitutional right to protest is that other people can exercise THEIR Constitutional rights to make fun of the protestors if they so desire.”

    Sure… you CAN be a disrespectful ass if you want to be. But that doesn’t mean you HAVE to be though. But hey, some people just like being classless, intolerant asses. They just can’t help themselves I guess.

  56. Matt D says:

    When a people – or person – unintentionally and repeatedly refer to a euphemism for dangling testicles in someone’s mouth – it is our right, nay , our duty as Americans to mock the living hell out of them, regardless of race, creed, color – or even political affiliation.

    Do any less and the terrorists win.

  57. Dennis V. says:

    Bill: “Remember how there was that earthquake in Haiti – people continue to die there. But I’m glad Fox News found the time to focus on this issue. Solid. Real Solid.”

    FNC is a 24-hour cable news channel. Devoting a 5 minute (?) segment about this “controversy,” no matter how silly it may or may not be, is hardly cause to overreact and accuse Fox of not covering anything else that is going on in the world.

  58. Army of Dorkness says:

    “Sure… you CAN be a disrespectful ass if you want to be. But that doesn’t mean you HAVE to be though. But hey, some people just like being classless, intolerant asses. They just can’t help themselves I guess.”

    I believe this describes Tea Party members perfectly.

  59. The best joke I saw on this;

    “Those can’t be tea-baggers. The signs are spelled correctly.”

  60. The Teabaggers deserve all the scorn they get.
    Where was their beef the last 8 years?

  61. Nathan says:

    I am so tired of the unceasing left-wing bias of almost everything in the entertainment industry these days. Show me the comic that portrays the right wing or even libertarian views (aside from sex and drugs) in a positive light. This issue was my last issue of Captain America, because I can’t give money to a company that repeatedly mocks me and – now – essentially calls me a racist.

    It is not a left-wing conspiracy. They have (thank heavens) every right to keep publishing snarky attacks on tea partiers like myself.

    And I have every right to speak out against it and stop buying the comics.

    And vote…..

  62. Any movement that looks up to Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck as their intellectual leaders really does earn the snark aimed at it.

  63. Nathan says:

    Our intellectual leaders are Thomas Paine, Adam Smith, F.A. Hayek, and others. While Beck and Palin are vocal, political leaders that are easy to demonize (which is why the left mentions them sooooo much), the movement started long before those to started to capitalize on it. They are our intellectual leaders to the same extent Keith Olberman is yours.

    The fact remains that the villains in a Captain America book should not be people asserting the Constitutional right to protest peacefully. In the 60s, he came to the defense of such people. The only difference now is that the demonstrators are on the side of the political fence. Regardless of politics, I thought Captain America represented us all and would not vilify roughly half the American population just for their political dissent.

  64. Torsten Adair says:

    I read Cup of Joe and believe this was just a series of mistakes.

    Mistake #1) The writer did not instruct the letterer on what text to place in the signs. (I have not seen the script. It is possible the letterer overlooked the script.)

    Mistake #2) The letterer, seeing the blank placards, should have asked the editor for instruction.

    Mistake #3) The editor, upon reading the finished pages, should have noticed the blank placards. (I believe this is what happened, although the book was behind schedule.)

    Mistake #4) The production letterer (if different than the series letterer) should not have used recent images from Google News or Google Image as reference (see: Pedobear and the Vancouver Olympics). If creative, old Marvel slogans would have sufficed (“Keep the Faith”, “Face Front True Believers”). If not creative, a search of old Silent Majority news photos or protest signs from that era or earlier would have provided suitable, yet outdated, slogans.

    Captain America, a patriotic symbol of this country, will almost automatically be a lightning rod for political storytelling. Politics attracts those seeking power, and in this story, the group is not AIM or Hydra or Roxxon or SMERSH or CREEP, it’s the Watchdogs, which seems to follow the Turner Diaries mindset.

    Some think that Marvel is equating the Tea Party with extremist political organizations. This is a valid reaction, as every new group is a minority, and experiences stereotypical and kneejerk reactions from others. (“You still read comics? Here, read a real book, not that garbage.”) If this group is founded on anger or frustration (as most are), then the reaction to any perceived insult will be fueled by anger and frustration.

    As for the aprehension to the Tea Partiers (Minute Men?), it is logical. Nixon rallied the unorganized “Silent Majority” to great effect. Newt Gingrich used his “Contract With America” as a manifesto to gain Republican control of Congress. Democrats use it as well (“Yes We Can”). Ignore the Zeitgeist and it will haunt you forever.

  65. Steve Rogers says:

    “The only difference now is that the demonstrators are on the side of the political fence.”

    Teabaggers are demonstrably and profoundly ignorant nativists who are being led around by the nose by the likes of Dick Armey’s Freedom Works firm. These are people who are complaining about tax increases after having their taxes cut. These are people who think Sarah Palin is smart. These are people who think snow disproves climate change. These are people who think reforming and regulating the health insurance industry equals socialism. These are people who think the president is a socialist AND a Nazi AND a Communist AND a terrorist. These are people who think the president wasn’t born in America.

    “Regardless of politics, I thought Captain America represented us all and would not vilify roughly half the American population just for their political dissent.”

    Teabaggers, thank heaven, make up far less than half the American population.

  66. Nathan says:

    If Scott Brown can win a majority in Massachusetts, I daresay a majority or at least a large minority of Americans agree with Tea Party sentiments.

    Of course, you list a litany of ideas you’d like to impose upon Tea Partiers, because that makes it easier for you to hate them. Heaven forbid people just disagree. No, in today’s climate, BOTH SIDES have to demonize the other to make themselves feel better.

    As the Tea Party movement has grown, people like Palin and Tancredo have glommed in hopes of promoting themselves. That does not change the core message of the Tea Party movement — less government and more freedom.

    I am pro-immigration. I think Palin is not bright and should not be President. The snow in DC neither proves nor disproves global warming. I don’t think the President is a Communist or a foreigner.

    I just think we need less government not more. I am a Tea Partier. If you disagree, I respect your opinion. I just wish the comic book industry that I used to love respected mine.

  67. That’s talking out of both sides of your neck. To state that one is weary of the group they claim kinship with being vilified and stereotyped with blanket pronouncements and to precede it with a comment like: “I am so tired of the unceasing left-wing bias of almost everything in the entertainment industry these days.” is a small example of the larger problem that thinking Americans, not merely liberals, have with people who describe themselves as being advocates of the Tea Party.
    (I wish Noam Chomsky was writing Captain America.)

  68. Nathan says:

    Steven,

    Please show me an example from a comic book or entertainment industry that either mocks liberals or protrays conservatives in a positive light. There is no talking out of both sides of anything. My point of view differs from yours. I simply am pointing out the comic book industry almost invariably parrots left-wing ideas, and I can no longer buy books that are so outside of the mainstream of American politics that they can’t throw the occasional bone to the other side. In this case, even worse, they portray us as racist villains. I do perceive an unceasing left-wing bias (this one is but the latest example). Please prove me wrong.

  69. Steve Rogers says:

    Nathan, the positions I listed are ones that teabaggers themselves espouse on their signs, at their rallies, and at their meetings. No one’s “imposing” anything. You’re engaging in the “no true Scotsman” fallacy and trying to handwave away the unhinged conspiracy-mongering and paranoia that’s the core of the teabagger movement.

  70. Wayne Beamer says:

    Karen,

    Thanks for the clarification. FWIW, the first time I ever heard the term “tea bagging” used in a story told at the Embassy Suites restaurant during Comicon. In the summer of 2008. And, it still makes me laugh big time (thanks Ross). When I heard KO and RM use the term on their shows, I couldn’t believe the TBs referred to themselves that way. After seeing and hearing the kind of “tin-foil hat” people this movement attracts, however, I wasn’t surprised.

    All this talk makes me damned glad that I gave up my brief interest in Cap when I found out he was returning from the grave. Brubaker’s a great writer, but I couldn’t swallow that “everything old is new again” redo one more time. Gave up Thor after Stracynski left for the same reasons…

    Thanks,

    Wayne

  71. Nathan says:

    Steve,

    If you google Tea Party Patriots (the closest thing to an official website for the movement), you will see the core principles outlined there and they have nothing to do with the ideas most commonly focused on by the media and the left.

    The core ideas say nothing about snow disproving climate change or calling President Obama a foreigner. As with any movement, there are those who want to ride the wave. And, of course, there are the random people with disparate ideas that are on the fringe of movement — but somehow they are the ones who get the most air time on tv.

    The fact remains that the core of the movement is about less government and more freedom.

    Demonize us all you want, but why not meet us and have a beer instead? You might actually find out that we liked “The Preacher” too and are not nearly as evil as you think. We’ll debate who is better — Lee or Ditko (Ditko of course ;).

    We just disagree. But that doesn’t make us evil, and shouldn’t make us a villain in a comic book.

  72. Please insert Englehart scripted, Sal Buscema drawn, Steve Rogers screaming something cool here.

  73. Synsidar says:

    Below is a description of the core values of the Tea Party Patriots:

    Fiscal Responsibility: Fiscal Responsibility by government honors and respects the freedom of the individual to spend the money that is the fruit of their own labor. A constitutionally limited government, designed to protect the blessings of liberty, must be fiscally responsible or it must subject its citizenry to high levels of taxation that unjustly restrict the liberty our Constitution was designed to protect. Such runaway deficit spending as we now see in Washington D.C. compels us to take action as the increasing national debt is a grave threat to our national sovereignty and the personal and economic liberty of future generations.

    Constitutionally Limited Government: We, the members of The Tea Party Patriots, are inspired by our founding documents and regard the Constitution of the United States to be the supreme law of the land. We believe that it is possible to know the original intent of the government our founders set forth, and stand in support of that intent. Like the founders, we support states’ rights for those powers not expressly stated in the Constitution. As the government is of the people, by the people and for the people, in all other matters we support the personal liberty of the individual, within the rule of law.

    Free Markets: A free market is the economic consequence of personal liberty. The founders believed that personal and economic freedom were indivisible, as do we. Our current government’s interference distorts the free market and inhibits the pursuit of individual and economic liberty. Therefore, we support a return to the free market principles on which this nation was founded and oppose government intervention into the operations of private business.

    Those values seem fine, in the abstract, but they’re simple values that can’t be applied easily to complex issues. One reason why the federal govt. is running a huge deficit now was the economic crisis; if the stimulus bill hadn’t been enacted, the country would probably be in a depression now. The missions in Iraq and Afghanistan also cost money. And there’s the Iran problem. . .

    A major reason why the economic crisis developed was unrestrained, risky investments in credit default swaps by banks that were only interested in enriching themselves (their executives). I assume everyone has heard about the yearly bonuses. If the markets are already free enough to allow that type of narcissistic, “the rest of the world can take care of itself” behavior, what would happen with freer markets? Rip-off artists would be in paradise.

    Limited government is great until your (perceived) rights are violated. Allowing states to have greatly varying sets of laws in the areas of social rights, religious expression, labor, etc. would destroy the country’s social fabric.

    What would other countries do if the U.S. was preoccupied by internal tensions and strife? Do you think China would just let the U.S. flail around for years?

    Functional parties have to take positions on a wide range of issues. The U.S. has a population of 308 million, with incomes ranging from the poverty level to obscene (?) wealth. Just keeping the country functioning and intact requires political positions and policies more numerous and complex than the TPP’s core values allow for.

    SRS

  74. arch 14 says:

    The claims that Captain America #602 in anyway tries to link the Tea Party movement to racism must be coming from people from people who have not read the comic, yes? I just don’t see it.

    Bucky and Sam came to Idaho to track down and infiltrate a white supremacist reactionary paramilitary group – the Watchdogs. While there they see a large anti-tax protest and Sam says, “So I guess the whole “hate the government” vibe around here isn’t just limited to the Watchdogs.”

    Even within the comic the groups are clearly separated (this doesn’t even take into account that the direction connection to the Tea Party was unintentional).

    A couple of panels later Sam *does* say that he doesn’t think a black man from Harlem will fit in very well with a bunch of angry white folks. Is this accusing them of being racist? Or is this recognizing the power of distinct backgrounds and the tension that can occur between social classes, between mid-westerners and east-coasters, and yes, between races. Or is it simply that race cannot be mentioned with an hysteria alarm going off?

    At least this puts to bed (jokes!) the idea that it’s the domain of liberals to be overly sensitive of petty issues.

  75. Synsidar says:

    Below is a statement by Nomad from CAPTAIN AMERICA #183, by Englehart and Frank Robbins.

    Nomad speaks

    And below are more memorable sequences that prompted a short essay on Captain America and history.

    Secret Empire 1

    Secret Empire 2

  76. Army of Dorkness says:

    “Please show me an example from a comic book or entertainment industry that either mocks liberals or protrays conservatives in a positive light.”

    The film “An American Carol.”

  77. Tom Spurgeon says:

    I’d swear that’s Frank Robbins.

    Cap’s speech probably could have waited until they untied poor Roscoe’s corpse there.

  78. Synsidar says:

    Yup, the blogger had artwork from both artists in his entry, and I got them confused. Roscoe wasn’t in a hurry to go anywhere, though, was he? And the moment required a statement of some sort.

    SRS

  79. arch 14 says:

    that speech paired with that costume – dynamite.

    wasn’t until reading Tom’s post that I figured out what was going on with that upside down Cap in the final panel.

  80. I don’t think it’s incumbent on me to show someone else examples from any industry that mocks liberals or portrays conservatives in one light or another. There’s a wealth of material to be had for any motivated individual interested enough to seek it out. Blanket statements of victimization at the hands of so-called liberal media are plainly, not true. That someone on a comments board could divine whether or not my political attitudes are completely different or similar from anyone else’s, seems highly unlikely. That the comic books mentioned are SO outside of the political mainstream, seems subjective. I’m not out to prove anyone wrong, here, I’m merely stating my opinion, like everyone else and I have done my research. I’m not demonizing anyone,…I’m just saying they’re dumb and that, it seems dumb to attach oneself to such a scatterbrained, ill-informed, poorly represented, nominal group and to expect anything other than derision from the likes of me.
    That and the fact that I would like to see Cap written by Noam Chomsky.

  81. Charles Knight says:

    “Our intellectual leaders are Thomas Paine, Adam Smith, F.A. Hayek, and others. ”

    Adam Smith wasn’t in teabagging, wolf-bagging maybe.

  82. I just want to add that I’ve learned more about the Tea Party from this thread than from any news source. Who knew The Beat comments could be so educational? AND fun!

  83. Nathan says:

    Of course, you won’t show how the comics (or any entertainment) industry portrays Tea Partiers, Republicans, conservatives, or even libertarians in a positive light. Because you can’t.

    There are the rare, specific exceptions like “American Carol” or “Michael Moore Hates America” when the few hardy, conservative souls get together to put together a response. But for each exception, there are the 99 examples that prove the rule.

    In comic after comic (Spider-Man is particularly guilty these days), there are small examples of liberal politics that add and add to the grating background noise of left-wing bias. Having the Falcon essentially tell Captain America that people with my beliefs won’t accept him, because he’s black (and then prove it by provoking a fight with “angry white folk” like myself) is insulting. It’s particularly insulting that it appears in a Captain America comic. A

    And anyone who thinks those protestors weren’t supposed to be Tea Partiers is beyond naive. What? You think they were nuclear freeze protestors??? Marvel and Brubaker have every right to make books mocking me and political groups that agree with me. But I have every right to identify it as the politically biased schlock that it is, and suggest that maybe the comics industry should not alienate even more of a shrinking base of customers. I just want to read one comic that won’t demean me and the majority of Massachusetts voters who agree with me.

  84. Alan Coil says:

    “Of course, you won’t show how the comics (or any entertainment) industry portrays Tea Partiers…in a positive light. Because you can’t.”

    Even the Teabaggers can’t, that’s why. And I refuse to use your term for them when Teabaggers rather adroitly lends them all the respect they deserve.

  85. Alan Coil says:

    Also, Nathan, you refuse to see what is being said here. Falcon said he wouldn’t fit in with the White Supremecists, not the Teabaggers.

    That little fact pretty much defuses your entire argument about this issue of Captain America.

    But that’s okay, because we don’t expect you to argue reality. After all, you ARE a Teabagger.

  86. arch 14 says:

    Can’t tell if Nathan is responding to me or not, but you didn’t really address any of my points. So let me just add a few things things –

    1) I never said the protesters weren’t “inspired by” the Tea Party movement (so maybe I’m not “beyond naive”? I guess that’s for you to judge). Captain America has been taking ideas from the headlines for the entirely of Brubaker’s run (and obviously, before that as well). I did say, that it was not supposed to be *the* Tea Party movement. That is a big difference, whether you want to believe it or not.

    2) Falcon doesn’t say anything about your beliefs. He says that he (as a black man from Harlem) doesn’t think he has much in common with angry white mid-westerners.

    3) FALCON is the one who makes these comments, by the way. Not Brubaker. Not Bucky. Again, maybe this doesn’t seem important to you – but I think it is. This is part 1 of a 4 part story. Maybe Sam will learn something, or realize he’s not wholly in the right. Maybe he won’t. But perhaps we should let the story unfold before assuming that Brubaker is just using characters to grind his own axe.

    4) The only fight that Sam/The Falcon picks is with Bucky…so…it was a set up. And it was more than just a black man walking into the bar (he was playing an overbearing government tax collector). Anyway…there was no indication that anyone was going to jump Sam if Bucky hadn’t. And the people that Bucky is trying to get in with *are* the Watchdogs…not the protesters.

    5) I’m not saying this book is apolitical. Not at all. But in my opinion, you really seem to have forced a reading of the book in order to justify a sense of outrage.

    addendum to Alan Coil – Sam’s comments about the angry white protesters are a not directed at the Watchdogs. He is talking about the protesters.

  87. Steve Rogers says:

    Nathan, it’s ludicrous for you to say that signs at teabagger rallies, speakers at teabagger events, and teabaggers’ own words don’t really represent the teabaggers — no, all of the ugly nativism and paranoia on flagrant public display doesn’t matter, just whatever pure as the driven snow beliefs reside in your little heart of teabagging hearts — whatever those are; it’s not like there’s a single coherent belief at the core of the teabagger movement.

    (On a side note, it’s fascinating that the MA-SEN special election is the only one that matters to Nathan. The string of special House elections the GOP has lost, that whole 2008 election, none of them matter to teabagging Nathan, I guess. One wonders what Nathan will cling to when Scott Brown loses in 2012.)

  88. Unless my eyes deceive me, I think that someone actually did provide a representation of the very character this thread pertains to expressing a somewhat libertarian view in a pretty positive light. Your assertion that I, personally, couldn’t provide one or two examples, is an assumption and patently wrong. The idea that there are no examples of conservatives or Republicans being treated in a positive light in the comics, or entertainment industry at large is an assumption and is clearly, not true. The slightest bit of investigation would prove this to be so.
    Your observation that Captain America and Falcon are talking about people with your beliefs is, again, an assumption and spurious, at best.
    One of the problems that I, personally, have with people who tend to identify themselves with the tea party is that, more often than not, they frame their arguments based on wrong headed assumptions and their only come back when push comes to shove, seems to be “Oh yeah! Prove I’m wrong!” Despite the fact that all of the evidence to the contrary remains clearly in sight of everyone, but, apparently, them.
    Along with that, despite what tea partiers would have me believe, theirs is obviously NOT a majority political attitude. I think the last Presidential election proved that pretty handily. In fact, the candidate that the Boston Tea Party endorsed, didn’t win that election in Massachusetts. That would be Libertarian Party candidate, Joseph Lewis Kennedy, who garnered one percent of the vote.

  89. Back away from the keyboard.

  90. arch 14 says:

    okay, I will stop posting about this topic, but I thought I should share the link from caleb’s blog –

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_bdVR-JIDi2g/S3Rf1Pg_XsI/AAAAAAAAQV4/8rxF17qdJdY/s1600-h/hatefulleftieskx4.jpg

    it’s a panel from secret invasion – some anti-war/liberal protesters are about to be on the receiving end of a skrull attack (reminiscent of that scene from Independence Day…no?). caleb’s thoughts here (3rd item)- http://everydayislikewednesday.blogspot.com/2010/02/three-pretty-random-links.html

  91. Army of Dorkness says:

    “I have every right to identify it as the politically biased schlock that it is”

    As opposed to the politically biased schlock that you want it to be or that you normally experience?

    And I’m for MORE taxes, for the record. Scott Brown won because his opponent had the personality of a dead cat and didn’t bother to think she’d lose and maybe should try to get some votes rather than inherit them.

    There’s no “free market” either. Without regulation, there’s just the market that the rich create and inflict on everyone else in order to stay rich and keep us “everyone else.”

  92. Those damn letterers! If only the system could be fixed to put someone between them and the printers! But who??? Alas, their power is too great!

  93. Thomas Hart says:

    Wow. A lot of hate for the Tea Party for exercising their right to peacefully demonstrate in America. This is the America that Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert, Bill Maher, Keith Olbermann, and Rachel Maddow want?

    Strange.

  94. I don’t see a lot of hate being aimed at the tea party for merely exercising their right of free speech. I think it has more to do with what it is they’re actually saying, once they get around to exercising it.

  95. Army of Dorkness says:

    “I may not agree with or like what you have to say, but I’ll defend your right to say it… and tell you how stupid you sound while doing so.”

  96. Very good subject matter. I have found a lot interesting things here. Keep going.

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