They’ll do it every time!

No sooner has Rich Johnston noted that much-loved and admired Amanda Conner was the first woman to make Wizard Magazine Top 10 artists list—to much huzzahing and rejoicing—than it was noted, via CB Cebulski’s Twitter, that the SAME issue of Wizard contained THIS:

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Boobs!

Did you know that “a boob” means:

1 : a stupid awkward person : simpleton
2 : boor, philistine


So, perhaps the Wizard staff was engaging in a rare moment of self reflection?? Let’s all help them in their admirable goal of self-examination and give them some more feedback. A “trust” exercise, if you will.

Comments

  1. Ah, memories. We’d be all excited that we got, like, Kramers Ergot into an issue, and then the proofs would come in and we’d see that someone else had done a “name that ass” graphic.

  2. Tom Spurgeon says:

    Wizard’s still publishing?

  3. majorjoe23 says:

    Pull list? Ewwww

  4. Give them some more feedback? I haven’t bought an issue of the magazine in about 7 years, that’s not feedback enough?

  5. I’m just impressed that they managed to use the correct spelling of “wiles”.

    Now, if their “pull list” is really just a source of masturbation material, what about the stories featuring men with bulging muscles and no penises that they also “read”?

  6. Well, at least they didn’t call it an “eight-pack”.

    Gives new meaning to the phrase “Wizard Staff”.

    If I didn’t get it free at work, I wouldn’t read it. The last issue I bought was the top 100 graphic novels (issued since Wizard started publishing), and they completely F’d that up. (Devil’s Due G.I. Joe? List and discussion at ComicVine.)

  7. Synsidar says:

    One comment in Wizard’s defense, since I can’t believe they’d be stupid enough to deliberately refer to masturbation: One meaning of “pull” that they refer to is probably the “ability to attract”. One common usage is “box office pull”.

    SRS

  8. jacob lyon goddard says:

    well this is a shock
    Wizard continues to embarrass us all

  9. Well, considering Conner is best known for her work on the well-endowed Power Girl, that may partially explain her inclusion in Wizard’s Top 10 Artists list.

  10. Comics are rather diverse nowadays. This isn’t just the badgirl 1990s last I checked, so seeing the few sensationalist female icons won’t skew my current belief in comics (and this is coming from the guy who draws Bomb Queen), my point is that while I agree with the sentiments I’m also not convinced that this small example can be seen as a standard or juxtaposed to Amanda Conner’s work. In short, they simply coexist in our diverse market, just like empty popcorn blockbusters and lofty independent films. Neither should be excluded or ridiculed in a truly diverse industry.

    Wizard Magazine, Comics Journal, The Beat, Draw! Magazine, Comics Shop News, Newsarama, et. they all perform well for their audiences and mixed readers, too.

  11. Dave Miller-lad says:

    oh. When I read “feminine wiles” I thought it was an article about occasional superheroine getting pregnant ;o)

  12. One comment in Wizard’s defense, since I can’t believe they’d be stupid enough to deliberately refer to masturbation

    I dunno. Batman: Widening Gyre #1 had Poison Ivy masturbating on-panel (naughty bits unseen due to the posterior view) last month and nary an eyebrow was raised.

  13. Charles Knight says:

    I never understand the interest in the modern age – why knock one off to a comic when you can stream dutch hardcore straight to the bedroom?

  14. Alan Coil says:

    Perhaps ‘wiles’ was a spell-check correction of their mistyped ‘whores’.

  15. Writing Pictures says:

    “One comment in Wizard’s defense, since I can’t believe they’d be stupid enough to deliberately refer to masturbation”

    You have no faith in Wizard, sir. These fine folks start each day with a hot cup of stupid. It’s essential to the work they do.

    On the subject of Amanda Conner hitting the top 10 list, if I were her, I would take the Woody Allen approach and not be part of any Wizard club that would have me as a member.

  16. Alexa says:

    @Writing Pictures, I believe you mean Groucho Marx.

    Anyway, yeah I saw that, and all I could think was “They just…slapped the word “boobs” on the end there. No real reason…just for the sake of saying it? Were they afraid their readers wouldn’t know what to call the mounds of flesh depicted underneath? Or is it just…comics are the only place this copy writer actually sees boobs, and he just got too…excited and couldn’t contain himself?”

  17. Birmy says:

    I assume he was quoting Woody Allen quoting Groucho in “Annie Hall.”

  18. Jim Sheridan says:

    Why DO all of these comics have these women with the boobs hanging out?

  19. Steve says:

    In light of everything that was said today on here and on Twitter, I thought this was a little odd.

    http://www.comicsalliance.com/2009/09/29/marvel-rides-the-sexy-halloween-costume-craze-with-women-of-m/

  20. “I never understand the interest in the modern age – why knock one off to a comic when you can stream dutch hardcore straight to the bedroom?”

    This goes back to the value of comics as a medium: you can depict things that simply cannot be depicted using live actors (at least not without mondo FX). I think that Wizard’s boob fixation is a bit infantile, but if you fantasize about women with antigravity breasts bigger than their heads, comics do that better than any porn I’ve come across.

  21. Halloween… it’s not just for children!

    Sure… the press releases are hitting the web now, but Diamond Previews featured costumes back in the March 2009 Previews (p.399-404). Note that female Marvel costumes are available in sizes 4-14.

    As an uncle, I also think the younger pink superheroine costumes for girls are supercute! (As are the one-piece swimsuits, with the towel which doubles as a cape!)

    And the costumes aren’t that racy… I mean, if Miss California Carrie “same sex” Prejean can model one in a fashion show at Comic-Con, then it must be okay for general consumption, right?
    http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2009/09/24/2009-09-24_happy_halloween_carrie_prejean_former_miss_california_usa_models_skimpy_costumes.html

  22. Why odd, Steve?

  23. Torsten, the fact that you think costumes like this (http://www.disguise.com/productinfo.asp?item=670&dc=351) “aren’t that racy” is a testament to how totally warped the bar set by superhero comics really is. But I’m sure you’d feel the same way if you had a niece or a daughter putting it on, right?

    People like to talk about how really, everyone understands that superhero comics are fantasy and the women and their costumes and behavior are totally unrealistic, but when triple-D boob windows and upskirt shots of teenage Supergirl morph into superheroine quasi-lingerie “for girls” and people like you shrug, I can’t help but think they’re wrong.

    Also, what makes you think that anything relating to cosplay at Comic-Con would automatically be appropriate for “general consumption”?

  24. mark coale says:

    Forget it, Jake, it’s Wizard.

  25. I don’t really find it surprising, as it’s inline with Wizard’s desire to fill the Comic Foundry niche. CF had the honor of being the edgy, cool kid’s comic mag. Sure, we only got about 5 issues out of it, but most people liked what they saw. The minute that publication folded, Wizard swept in and pretty much lifted everything they had done, from layout to fonts. The problem is that Wizard doesn’t quite “get it”. They lack the clever, tongue-in-cheek tone of CF, so their stuff ends up coming off more like, well Stuff Magazine. I wouldn’t be surprised if we ended up with a YouTube video of Gareb crying as he reads something he finds shocking in the next issue of The Comics Journal…

  26. Steve says:

    Nothing odd about the article on Comics Alliance, it’s just funny to see someone from Marvel bashing Wizard when they produce product that feeds into that mind set. Not just the costumes but the comics as well, when I look at those images in the article I hate to say it but the first things I notice isn’t how great the art is, the thing that pops out first are the Boobs! and in Marvel’s case, Red Boobs! Scratch that, I guess the first thing I notice is the art, it’s just focused at a specific place…

    I agree with Laura, and I don’t think this type of writing will stop. If it’s not Wizard it will be someone else, I’m not saying it’s right, just saying that this mentality is out there.

    Just curious, would this have garnered the same reaction if Maxim or a FHM ran the article. I know they are two completely different magazine, but they are both trying to hit the same demo. Who knows???

  27. Also, I’m not trying to bash Amanda Conner, as I love her art, but Power Girl really is THE go-to character when it comes to enormous knockers, so I found it a little ironic that CB found her Top 10 entry so ironic when juxtaposed with the Wizard article.

    Boobs!

  28. I wouldn’t be surprised if we ended up with a YouTube video of Gareb crying as he reads something he finds shocking in the next issue of The Comics Journal…

    This is a meme that needs to STAY ALIVE.

  29. Laura… that was meant in jest. Carrie Prejean, the darling of Middle America conservatives, modeling such a revealing costume… (Of course, she lost her crown due to revealing photos…) Dunno if one calls that Schadenfreude or irony or Hoisted on a petard or Getting hit with the hypocrite stick…

    As for what my nieces would wear when they get older… Well, I would hope that their parents would have raised them with a good sense of judgement. If I saw a photo of them after the fact, I’d talk to them and ask why. If they knocked on my door one Halloween dressed questionably, I’d be shocked, voice my opinion, and hopefully they would explain their choice of costume. And then I’d call their parents and talk with them.

    Yes, Marvel screwed up. There are numerous fictional costumes in the Marvel Universe which could have been licensed, instead of tarting up the designs (even the Black Cat, who has one of the more revealing costumes in the Marvel Universe, gets a miniskirt). (Wait… Emma Frost is done correctly, but she dresses like that in the comic…)

    Yes, the fact that young women can wear these costumes is troubling. More troubling is how society encourages teens to mature or act “grown-up” as soon as possible.

    The objectification in comics, yeah, I avoid it for the most part. Fanservice gets in the way of the story. If a reader wants that sort of thing, he or she should go read slash or hentai or visit one of the toon porn sites.

    Food for thought: Comics are escapist fantasy. Halloween allows people to assume an other identity, to fantasize or make-believe, sometimes to embrace the forbidden or taboo. Superheroes are an idealized/idolized power fantasy, and that inspires the imagination. How to segregate adult fantasies from childhood fantasies, especially in a multimedia society?

  30. Sorry about that, Torsten. It’s probably a sign that you’ve spent too much time on the internet when you assume that everyone is saying the dumbest thing possible.

    I also think you’re right that there is a place for adult fantasy — both sexual and non-sexual — and the biggest problem that superhero comics runs into is a problem of context. I had no issue with the superhero lingerie that Heidi linked to recently, precisely because it deals with those fantasies in a way that is very clearly designated for adults and sexytime. Great! Call it what it is and we can all move on.

    In my mind, these Marvel costumes are obviously adult, sexually-oriented costumes — which is fine, except that they aren’t marketed that way. It’s hard to imagine Marvel wanting their products to be stocked in adult or fetish shops, but
    if you’re going for sexual fantasy, then own that and place it in that context — don’t pretend it’s fun for the whole family.

    I think you run into the same thing with a lot of superhero comics, where the left hand pretends not to know what the right is doing and you get non-stop ass shots of scantily-clad ladies in comics that are theoretically supposed to be for everyone.

    And the problem for me isn’t even that women exist as male sexual fantasy objects in some comics, but the fact that 1) that is usually the ONLY visual narrative superhero comics offer and 2) they’re not honest about it. There’s a place for the art you find in Tarot, and Marvel Swimsuit Editions, and porn comics, and ridiculous, over-the-top 90s Gen13-style girlsploitation books, but it doesn’t have to be in every goddamn title.

    Make steamy fantasy superhero comics for guys! Seriously, just do it! Make a whole freaking imprint for it, I don’t care! But then give me other mainstream superhero stories that don’t look like Maxim spreads so that I can pretend you want me to read them, and tell us stories that don’t have a constant subtext of dudewanking so that maybe someone is not an 18-35 year-old guy who already reads comics might think about picking them up.

  31. Torsten Adair says:

    I may play The Fool sometimes, but I am not stupid. (Especially here. The Beatrix once corrected my behavior some 15 years ago, and I endeavour to not repeat the experience.)

    No matter how hard one tries, some schmuck (yes, I am using the Yiddish definition) will still objectify the character. For example: Detective Comics. This title currently features two strong female heroes, no-nonsense, almost fully clothed, as serious as their predecessors. Yet, a comics retailer twitters how hot it would be if they “teamed-up” together.

    At which point, I fantasize about Firestar and Titania battling through his store after closing, leaving him to find a wet, smoldering ruin in the morning.

    Or is that too naughty? }]

  32. Alan Coil says:

    Schadenfreude — satisfaction or pleasure felt at someone else’s misfortune.

    Such as the joy I took when the Detroit Lions went 0-16 last year.

  33. Synsidar says:

    How significant is it that people who write superhero porn routinely have the breasts of the heroines enlarged, through potions or other methods, so that they measure 40 FFF, 42 HHH, or other sizes that would leave the heroine unable to see her feet, if she could stand erect. The focus artists have on the heroines’ bodies is probably the worst systemic problem superhero comics have — because the artwork deliberately appeals to deviant tastes.

    It would be interesting to have researchers have people unused to reading comics read a story featuring a heroine in a typically scanty costume, have them read the equivalent story written in prose with her appearance established once, and have the readers describe their impressions of the characters.

    SRS

  34. Tom Spurgeon says:

    … while being threatened with a whip.

  35. alwaysoptimistic says:

    All of these points seem minor to me when compared to the fact that wizard’s online store is STEALING money from innocent customers who try to order from them. They had almost 50% feedback at their Amazon store before it was shut down.

    Many people who order from them receive a) nothing; b) some cheap piece of trash toy that might cost HUNDREDS of dollars less than what they had ordered (if you order a $200 Statue then don’t be surprised to get a $2.00 figure instead); c) a poor packing job that makes the contents look like someone kicked them for 10-15 minutes before sending the order out.

    Wizard has shut down all customer service and will not help any customers with their problems.

    It’s too bad that no one cares about these activities and all of the fans hurt when they list off Wizard’s other sins.

  36. The fact that it took this long for Wizard to honor a female artist just says it all really.

  37. bad wolf says:

    “Make steamy fantasy superhero comics for guys! Seriously, just do it! ”

    Hasn’t anyone been reading Empowered? Although Adam Warren actually bothered to add well-crafted stories and characterization to that.

  38. Rebekah says:

    Wait… these guys just admitted that they and their readers wank it to cartoons. Isn’t it kind of redundant to get angry or make fun of them? They basically issued the ultimate slam unto themselves.

  39. Yeah. I mentioned this on Twitter (still can’t believe I am trying that out) but, in a world where my u-feminist pals have occasionally busted my chops over my choice on industry, I’m pleased that the kinda art I color/promote looks more like this:

    http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/2824/dawnredtielow.jpg

    You CAN be sexy & still be classy: you can be a fantasy/superheroine figure & not play to the lowest common denominator.

  40. Laura, don’t you write for Wizard? I saw a piece by you in the current issue.

  41. Synsidar says:

    One of Marvel’s newest characters. Inspired design, isn’t it? The high-tech top, especially.

    Red type of Hulk

  42. The Beat says:

    Is she SUPPOSED to be an amputee?

  43. Synsidar says:

    That’s a telling indication of what guys react to. That’s “official” promotional artwork, used with the promotional text pieces at Marvel.com, CBR, etc. I didn’t notice that part of a leg was missing; a quick Google search didn’t find signs that others have noticed, either. I was thinking how little that “7,000″ in “Marvel’s 7,000 characters” means, since ones such as red She-Hulk have no substance — but I saw the torso, all right.

    SRS

  44. Brendan T says:

    “Brian Jacoby from Secret Headquarters Tallahassee, Florida Says:

    09/29/09 at 11:31 am
    One comment in Wizard’s defense, since I can’t believe they’d be stupid enough to deliberately refer to masturbation

    I dunno. Batman: Widening Gyre #1 had Poison Ivy masturbating on-panel (naughty bits unseen due to the posterior view) last month and nary an eyebrow was raised.”

    I hate you so much for reminding me of that.

    And frankly I hate Wizard for publishing this crap.

    HATE~!

  45. That’s just too funny!!! Even 14 year old boys have internet access. Why beat off to a 2 dimensional cartoon?

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